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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
 Posted - 02/23/2006 : 01:34:35 AM
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Since I have received requests to put this back up, I decided to give in
and do so. Removing it was difficult for me to do, since I know MANY
out there who actually do appreciate my effort, havent been vocal on
the forum. It is for YOU, that this information is now being put back up.
I also went through and removed all of my posts regarding my thought
process on WHY I made my own setup. This was deemed to be a putting
down the "other guys" product to promote my own. In all honesty, that
is NOT true, I am struggling, I dont have the money to invest in doing
a large group of these kits, and for someone that wants to keep their
stock rims - I POSE NO THREAT TO TURNER OR STEELTECH. This setup is
only going to fit MODERN Ford wheels. As I mentioned the GT setup is
a match for the Crown Victoria steel wheels, so stock Stude hubcaps
could be used, but the Cobra brakes REQUIRE 17 inch wheels.
I would appreciate that those who have the remainants of the earlier
"battle" edit their posts accordingly and leave this thread for info.
I do request though, that those using the Turner or Steeltech kits, do
NOT throw out their old front hubs. My design requires them, and if,
in the future, I DO find a way to mass produce brackets, I wont be
missing a critical part. Thank you.
Tom
As many of you might remember I bought a set of rims for it - 2003 Mustang
Cobra rims.
Well, one problem I found that I had was the rim would contact the
upper A-arm pivot in the front on a turn, this is bad for the rim!
I contacted a guy back east who sells a 12 inch rotor disc brake
setup that bolts on. The problem - its $650 plus shipping. I also
want to upgrade my rear brakes, he sells a rear disc kit, but there
is another problem - its $450 plus shipping. I wouldnt be that
concerned, but after sending out the $4250 check to the RIAA, I dont
have much left over for the mortgage, let alone brakes for a car I
rarely drive. The Avanti brakes need to be completely refurbished,
so even if I decided to keep the stock brakes, I am looking at over
1500 dollars in vintage discontinued brake parts ...
But .. along came my Mustang friend. See, Ford uses the SAME 5 on 4.5
inch wheel pattern (obviously since I could bolt the rims on) so the
rotors will fit my hubs also. My Mustang friend GAVE me his whole
1998 GT disc setup when he upgraded to Cobra brakes. 11 inch vented
front rotors, calipers, rear solid rotors, calipers (with parking
brake), and axle brackets. Since I am a CAD operator, I took the
dimensions of the bracket, and drew them up in CAD, I also got the
dimensions from the Dana 44 axle. It looks like the rear setup will
require some milling to thin the bracket a bit to move the mounting
surface out, and then a bolt pattern change, and open up one side so
it can slip over the axle tube and mount on the backside of the axle
flange. It will use three bolts to attach, which is common with a
disc brake caliper retrofit. The rotor will fit over the hub, and it
looks like the tapered backside of the stud holes, will nicely center
the rotor on the studs. Hopefully I can have the brackets modified
this next week at my work.
The front is a different story. I didnt get brackets, as the caliper
mounts to the spindle. I did some research and found a guy who makes
brackets to mount 03 Cobra brakes on a first Gen Mustang. I pulled
the image off his website and then imported it into CAD, then traced
it to get the basic angle and spacing from hub center for the caliper.
This is important to keep, as bleeding would become difficult! So,
armed with this new info, I felt good about using the GT front brakes
as well, you have more drive to adapt something when you get it for
free!! But, I ran into a problem. The Stude wheel hub is a larger
diameter then the inside diameter of the Ford rotor! Damn! This is
not the end of the world, as I can have the wheel hub machined to the
right size, removing metal is easier then putting it back. The rotors
on the Avanti are junk anyway. So I wasnt able to take the next step
of dimensions, so that I could continue with my brackets. I did some
research tonight on the web, looking to see if there was a hub that is
the right size for the rotor, that would fit my spindle - no dice. I
would rather use the Stude hub if I can, and the bearings are still
available. Interesting though, the 1994-04 Mustang hubs are NOT able
to be repaired! You can NOT put in new bearings! No joke! Now I
could get the hubs from my buddy (he mentioned that a bearing is now
making some noise, and then have my buddy at work machine the inside
to fit the Stude bearings, but .. thats a pain (though a possibility).
Back to the spacing problem, it looks as though moving the wheel out
1/4 inch will solve the clearance problem. The Stude rotor is mounted
on the backside of the hub, so it doesnt effect wheel position, but the
Mustang rotor is on the outside, between the rim and hub, and the
rotor thickness is .275, just a tad more then 1/4 inch. So if I can get
this to work, then it will work beautifullly with these rims. Though it
would not work well with stock steel rims, as the caliper position will
cause contact with the steel rims. Right now, because of the design
of the Cobra rims, the stock Stude brakes look pretty silly sitting WAY
back, and looking quite small. The NICE part about this swap, is the
Cobra uses the same hub, and caliper mount position as the GT, so
I can EASILY upgrade to 13 inch rotors and 2 piston calipers in the
future ... nice huh??
Tom |
Edited by - sbca96 on 06/10/2006 6:13:06 PM |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 01:36:40 AM
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Sorry about the focus on some of these pictures ....
The Studebaker hubs are now modified to accept the Ford rotors with the rotor lug
holes drilled out to the next SAE size - 5/8. The original Ford rotor holes being
metric these days. Here is the stock hub after separation - before mod :
The Ford rotor is 5.6 inchs in diameter where the hub needs to fit, the outside of
the hub was turned down to 5.5 inches, if you were to want to go with the Cobra
13 inch rotor from the start, I am assuming that the Cobra has more room in the
back, but this is not verified yet. I know that the rear rotor will fit the stock Stude
hub without being turned down:
I used Chrysler wheel studs, which are for a 1/2 and 3/4 ton truck from the 70's
all the way to 2003 - nice huh? Wide array of availability. Napa part number is
BK6412184, they come in boxes of 5. The only problem in using them is they are
for a larger hole. The Stude knurl is .645, but the knurl on these studs is .668. I
used a 21/32 drill to give me ~.012 of interference fit, then added Loctite. It is
pretty easy to do, with a hand drill and a vice. The studs are 1 3/4 inch long, with
a shoulder that would extend out to center the rotor.
I found that the old Stude rotor makes a perfect holder for the hub when pressing
the studs in, nice and stable. I might mention that one of the hubs on my Avanti
was a drum brake hub, with a disc pressed on the back, so I know that this will
work for either hubs. I found that the disc brake hub, accepted the stud straighter
then the drum brake hub. This is because the drum brake hub is not machined on
the back. This was easy enough to "fix", by putting the rotor on the hub, and then
tightening the wheel on to draw the rotor onto the hub. This straightened the studs
to the correct position (since the tapered hole in the rim will force the stud to
perpendicular to the hub face). I didnt have to do this with the disc brake hub.
Here is the finished hub - ready for a Ford rotor!
Here is the difference between the stud rotor and the Ford, the Stud is non-vented
and only about 3/8 thick, each half of the Ford rotor is 3/8 thick. The Stude one
worked great in its day, and still is good for a few stops, but I wouldnt trust it on
a twisty auto cross course! ;)
Here is the dinky little bracket that holds the stock Stude caliper in place, it only
uses three of the available 6 holes, and mounts on the back side.
Compared to a Craftsmen 9/16 wrench .... so cute!
Here is the hub and the spindle flange just waiting for the new brackets to come
out of my head:
Sorry, I didnt get a shot of the rotor on because the battery in the cam died, but it
does fit and spins true. The thickness of the rotor made the passenger side clear
perfectly and the drivers side almost clear the upper A-arm. It is driveable now (if
the brakes worked), I think that I will use an 1/8 spacer in between the rotor and
the wheel, the wheel studs are long enough to handle this. They are larger studs
then Ford used anyway. I took all the dimensions that I needed to draw up the
brackets in CAD, they look fairly simple to do.
Tom |
Edited by - sbca96 on 06/10/2006 6:17:32 PM |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 01:37:32 AM
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Well ... here is the next step in the Mustang GT brake project : test bracket. Its
always best when prototyping, to test your dimensions before going to metal. I
used some masonite to fab a rough bracket and test the design.
Here is the test bracket mounted on the spindle :
The large radius is to clear the massive wheel cylinder on the front caliper.
Here is the modified Studebaker hub mounted on the spindle:
Then we slip the Mustang rotor over the studs (with the metric holes drilled to the
next size SAE : 5/8):
And finally test fit the caliper onto the bracket to see how we did:
Turned out that I got pretty close on my first try. The only drawback was the lower
caliper bolt is right in line with the steering arm on the spindle. Not really a HUGE
problem, there are some tools that will allow the torquing of the bottom bolt, its
just nice when everything clears perfectly. Other then that, all looked great, now
to mill some 6061-T6!
Tom |
Edited by - sbca96 on 06/10/2006 6:18:57 PM |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 01:38:20 AM
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Masonite just doesnt compare to the look of machined aluminum. My work has a
lot of odd sized 6061-T6 scrap laying around, and even though my first choice was
to go with 7075-T6, you can not beat the price of free. Doing a comparison in the
strength of each, and steel .. the yeild and the expansion, it seemed that 7075 was
overkill anyway. But, I used 3/4 thick 6061-T6 - just in case.
Here is the drivers side bracket mounted on the spindle :
Using 3/4 inch thick aluminum gave me the opportunity to create a grease cavity
in the back side of the bracket. This is something that Studebaker used at all four
corners of the car, it is there so that if a grease seal was to fail .. the grease will
ooze harmlessly out the back .. and not end up on the drum or disc.
Here is a view from further back, sorry about all the grime and crud, I wasnt in the
mood to clean any more then I have too to check fitment. Once I swap out the GT
rotor and caliper for the big Cobra stuff, I will scrape and paint everything.
Here is the hub back on, and as you can see, designed in the bracket inner dia lets
the hub sit inside of it ... so if the grease seal fails ...
Now on to the passenger side, a mirrored bracket :
The rotor and caliper mounted :
There they be! Ofcourse the next step is to attach the Mustang brake lines to the
Studebaker frame, and for that the factory Mustang brackets didnt work, and the
factory Studebaker ones didnt either. So ... time to cut and bend and weld!
Tom |
Edited by - sbca96 on 06/10/2006 6:19:34 PM |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 01:40:25 AM
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After jacking the car up so that the wheels dangled, I figured that THIS would be
the "Worst Case" senario for the rubber brake hoses. I would end up trying quite
a few different locations and angles of the hose end before decideing on the best
position. The hose needed to be able to flex without rubbing anything throughout
the travel of the suspension and the turning of the wheel. What a pain! I found
that the stock Mustang brackets needed to be 90 degrees from what they were.
So I cut off the "business end" and then bought some steel stock. I wanted to use
the existing holes in the frame to bolt it down and locate it so that it wouldnt turn.
Here they are!! :
I dont know how to weld, but the supervisor of the machine shop will weld simple
parts for fast food fries. These cost me a large fry from Mc Donalds. This next pic
shows WHERE these go, I bet now it makes sense.
A close up ... pretty aint she?
And of course one for the other side as well :
The hoses dont contact anything when the wheels turn back and forth and the only
modification to the hose was an adapter fitting on the DRIVERS side to turn the
larger flare to the size Studebaker uses. Strange, but the PASS side was the same
size as Studebaker and didnt need to be changed. The wrench needed to tighten
the hose was a metric, but the flare was SAE - go figure.
My dad and I drove around and the brakes worked AMAZINGLY well. I had hoped
for an improvement, but there is NO comparison. Granted the old brakes were in
pretty bad condition, but the addition of a vented rotor will help cooling. I plan on
switching to the 13 inch Cobra brakes as soon as I get my tax refund. My dad
wants the GT parts for his Avanti.
Is anyone interested in something like this being marketed? I feel that by using
the original hubs, it really reduces waste, and doesnt require buying hard to find
rotors or using sleeves. Not to put down the great work that others have done to
keep Studes on the road, but I think there is always room for another viewpoint.
Shoot me an email if interested : sbca96@aol.com
Now I am working on the rear disc setup ... the brackets are done, and on the axle
and I am modifiying the hubs with the Dodge wheel studs. The outer dia of the hub
doesnt need to be machined down, because the inner dia of the Mustang rotor is
larger then the front and the Stude hub is smaller - perfect fit. The rotors actually
fit fine, but its recommended to have at LEAST 8 threads of contact on wheel studs
and I was at 5 with the stock length studs. I ordered the stock Mustang rear hoses
for the setup, because I didnt get those from my friend. I was happy to find that
Autozone includes the banjo bolt in the hose kit. Before you laugh, they are nice
hoses made by Wagner. Now I have to figure out the plumbing, once I get all the
wheel studs in ... had a mishap with one of the 5 studs I COULD get (damn the
StupidBowl, most the autoparts stores closed early today!), it contacted the socket
that I was using when pressing the stud in, and ruined the threads on the stud.
GRRRRRRRR!
Oh well .. gotta buy 6 tomorrow now.
I must also mention that "Bobby" the machinist thats been doing all the work for
me after hours, has been absolutely wonderful. If it wasnt for his patience with
the sometimes last minute and "on the fly" design changes this wouldnt have even
happened. Even the slight "correction" that we had to do on the rear brake caliper
brackets he didnt cringe (much) at. Thanks Bobby!! You dah Man!
Tom |
Edited by - sbca96 on 06/10/2006 6:21:51 PM |
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N8N
Commander Member
USA
2156 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2006 : 06:11:42 AM
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what a great project!
just curious about those wheels, what size/offset are they, and how did they fit before you started modding the brakes
(besides the interference in the front that you mentioned?) I think the
new Mustang 16" wheels might look cool on a Stude but am worried that
they have too much offset.
nate
--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
https://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2006 : 01:27:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by N8N
what a great project!
Thanks!
Tom |
Edited by - sbca96 on 06/10/2006 5:59:35 PM |
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N8N
Commander Member
USA
2156 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2006 : 07:08:28 AM
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I'd be interested, but I have other things on my plate right now, like
getting my steering box rebuilt and keeping my glass from leaking.
Just
curious, what exactly do you think are the drawbacks of the Turner
system? I personally get a little nervous putting too much tire under a
Stude; sounds like your brakes
are able to use the meats you have to their full potential, but I would
be concerned about possible frame cracking... just a thought... I'm
sure you've already thought about some of this stuff and if you're OK
with the tradeoff then it's all good...
nate
--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
https://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
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Transtar60
Golden Hawk Member
USA
510 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2006 : 09:32:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sbca96
Really thought I would get more feedback/responses on this thread. One
person was interested in wheel offset? I guess everyone is satified
enough with the poor design of the Turner system, and the lack of any
options or upgrades? Talk about having the air let out of your tires.
My machinist friend wants to actually start making these in limited
production. So far I have TWO emails in regards to interest. To
make it worth while, we need to buy the aluminum in bulk, but I will
have a lot of material left over.
Tom
Tom,
Your looking at a very limited market with at least three competing designs (maybe more).
a. Many Studebaker owners are happy with their OEM brakes because of various reasons. They work for what they do with the car.
Very few of us have a need to stop repeatedly from 130mph.
b. The few who choose to change to disc brakes, are happy with current vendor offerings.
c.
Bad mouthing Mr.Turners setup doesnt help. To you they might be
inefficient or too heavy etc but to most folks they maybe just right.
I've met Mr Turner and bought one of his dual master cylinder mounts for my 1 ton truck. And I am happy with it.
PS.
I'm still looking for some one to construct a disc brake kit for 8E12's that use the OEM spindles. None are available now. |
Edited by - Transtar60 on 03/05/2006 09:34:17 AM |
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gordr
Golden Hawk Member
Canada
617 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2006 : 9:37:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Transtar60
Tom,
Your looking at a very limited market with at least three competing designs (maybe more).
a. Many Studebaker owners are happy with their OEM brakes because of various reasons. They work for what they do with the car.
Very few of us have a need to stop repeatedly from 130mph.
b. The few who choose to change to disc brakes, are happy with current vendor offerings.
c.
Bad mouthing Mr.Turners setup doesnt help. To you they might be
inefficient or too heavy etc but to most folks they maybe just right.
I've met Mr Turner and bought one of his dual master cylinder mounts for my 1 ton truck. And I am happy with it.
PS.
I'm still looking for some one to construct a disc brake kit for 8E12's that use the OEM spindles. None are available now.
Transtar60,
Thanks for saying what needed to be said, and doing it in the nicest way possible, too.
Tom,
you're be commended for having tackled a tricky job, and for having so
well documented his work with great pics. A couple of questions come to
mind, though.
One, will aluminum stand up to the stresses in
this application? I could see the bolt holes becoming ovaled out,
particularly if the screws involved aren't torqued properly.
Two,
on those front brake brackets, it seems to me that one could round off
the leading corners without materially reducing strength, and that a
couple of lightening holes could also be drilled in the rear area,
again without compromising the strength of the part. I'd hazard a guess
that a machined or forged steel piece with just enough section
thickness to do the job safely would weigh little or nothing more than
that big slab of aluminum? Look at the stock Avanti caliper bracket and
compare.
Three, will stock wheels, or more traditionally styled
mags fit on a Stude that uses this arrangement? I'm thinking offset
here. Not all of us like the look of those modern rubber-band tires.
They may be grippy on good pavement, but on rough roads or gravel they
destroy your kidneys.
Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands |
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Dan White
Regal Member
USA
411 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 07:19:09 AM
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Tom:
I
think you have a great setup here, and using up to date components is
especially welcome. The only problem is that for many of us we have
already made an investment in the disk setups we have. The setup on my
'64 R1 Hawk is the original Dave Levesque (before he was Steeltech
Solutions) which used '68 Ford LTD rotors (drop on the Stude spindles
without any mods) and large Kelsey Hayes (Chrysler) calipers. Dave used
up most of the '68 rotors (this was a one year only rotor) and
developed the present setup. It has been on my Hawk for over 10 years
and no problems what so ever. Yes it is heavy but it works great. If I
was looking for a new setup I would surely be interested in what you
developed. You might want to design up a display units and go to the
national or one of the regional meets with you Avanti to see if you get
some more interest. It would definitely be worth the time I believe.
Dan
Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 4:18:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan White
I
think you have a great setup here, and using up to date components is
especially welcome. The only problem is that for many of us we have
already made an investment in the disk setups we have.
Thank you, with the simplicity of the design, I am really surprised
that no one had done it before now.... |
Edited by - sbca96 on 06/06/2006 11:44:03 PM |
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Transtar60
Golden Hawk Member
USA
510 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 4:26:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sbca96
There
is no sleeve that I am aware of. Perhaps you're refering to the grease
track adapter??? As far as moving the bearings out , the instructions
mention a second washer maybe needed. Maybe its actually moving the
bearings int
Your looking at a very limited market with at least three competing designs (maybe more).
Weell Steeltech, Turner, and yours and some guy in Minnesota who evidently only sells on ebay. Gee that makes 4.
Sorry, I was only aware of two, Steeltech and Turner.
quote:
Many Studebaker owners are happy with their OEM brakes because of various reasons. They work for what they do with the car. Very few of us have a need to stop repeatedly from 130mph.
Obviously they are not for everyone, I guess SDC isnt really the place
to mention any modifications, I should have known better. Considering
the very small "custom modified" section in the Turning Wheels, it is
not very accepted. Then putting on a dual master is a good idea, if
you actually intend to DRIVE your Studebaker. With the cost of OEM
parts getting into the rediculous range, I have talked to people who
have spent close to 1000 dollars rebuilding their 4 wheel drums. Why?
quote:
The few who choose to change to disc brakes,
are happy with current vendor offerings. Bad mouthing Mr.Turners setup
doesnt help. To you they might be inefficient or too heavy etc but to
most folks they maybe just right.
Yah, on top of the points I made above, they are quite heavy looking.
Then they use rotors that were used TWO years, and the Ford guys toss
in the trash when they rebuild their Mustangs past anything Concours.
The calipers warnings made me laugh, "make sure you get this one type
or they will not work, look for the bump ..." If you are going to go
to the trouble of offering an upgrade "modern disc brake", why not
pick something thats at least more common then what you are replacing?
"Modern" is a 60's rotor and a 70's caliper? If those are not valid
points worth considering when you are shelling out close to 700 bucks,
then I guess I stepped out of bounds here. I looked at Turners, then
considered Steeltechs, but then decided to make my own, using common
parts from a BROAD spectrum of years, with MANY options.
quote:
I've met Mr Turner and bought one of his dual master cylinder mounts for my 1 ton truck. And I am happy with it.
I am sure that Mr Turner is a GREAT guy, I dont remember saying that
he wasnt.
You didnt but you did "dis" his product with out much explanation.
I have never met Dave at Steeltech, but my brother did and
Dave helped him fix a bad pinion bearing in the middle of the night. I
dont see what that has to do with brakes though.
Has nothing to do with brakes. Lots to do with who's selling them.
You decided to put
on a dual master cylinder? Was that OEM stuff not good enough? 
Not for driving on roads with todays "drivers".
quote:
I'm still looking for some one to construct a disc brake kit for 8E12's that use the OEM spindles. None are available now.
I
threw that out there to reinforce the point, that the "market" is
pretty heavily saturated with disc brake kits for cars and 1/2ton
trucks. Perhaps someone at a Studebaker meet could introduce you to an
8E12.
quote:
Originally posted by gordr
Thanks for saying what needed to be said, and doing it in the nicest way possible, too.
"It" needed to be said? What was that, that needed to be said?
Knocking the other's stuff to sell yours may not work too well.
It looks like you did great work. Promote it on that basis.
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DEEPNHOCK
Commander Member
USA
1729 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 6:51:15 PM
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Stubborn lot, aren't we?
Thanks for posting the pic's.
I like good work.
Time is relentless, so what was great 10 years ago might be old hat today.....
But please be kind to those that actually build stuff.
It's the people, and their devotion to making, selling, servicing, and supporting Stude stuff that makes it worthwhile.
Sure, some will build their own to save a buck. It's their ride (and their neck), so let 'em have at it...
The
quality of the workmanship, and the quality of the service and support
that make my purchase decisions. 36 month waiting periods, with
personal attacks made about me (when the builder breaks promises) is
what will turn me off...in a hurry (is 36 months too long a wait to be
told he hasn't got time to help you, because you posted a warning to
others that he was slow????)
No rant here, because I am beyond that.
Just do good work, take no shortcuts, and be sure to share the good (and the bad) part of your projects...
That is what makes this marque a great one!
Jeff |
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Dan White
Regal Member
USA
411 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 7:11:26 PM
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The guy on Ebay selling Stude brake kits is Steeltech.
Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT |
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60Lark
Regal Member
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2006 : 11:11:22 PM
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There is another one that sells disc brake conversions on Ebay. I don't
know anything about him other than he is from Wisconsin and his Ebay
Store is called Backwoods Classics
Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil |
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gotti210
Cruiser Member
USA
140 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 12:10:08 AM
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hey man i love your idea
dont let the old timers get ya down
im a street rod / rat rod / custom car builder by trade and for life its in my veins
i own a small shop here in San Antonio Texas call Outlaws Rod & Kustom
id like to talk with you more about you setup
how can i get ahold of you |
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64Avanti
Starlight Member
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 01:10:58 AM
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Just wanted to say that I like your brake conversion a lot better the
others on the market. But of course being an engineer for the last 32
years and having started modifying Studebakers when I was about 14
years old I think I have a better solution. I started installing
aluminum PRB front calipers (same as the Cobra Mustangs, Corvettes in
the past and BAER brakes)and
PRB rears. I haven't been able to finish it as I have been working on
my Avanti for Bonneville and my wife wants that car done so we (she and
I) can race it this year.
There are many of us who have modified our Studebakers. When I was 16 I installed 4 wheel disk brakes
on our 1960 Hawk. A couple of years later I installed an independant
rear suspension from a 65 Corvette and a 425 Olds in my 64 Hawk.
If
you want to sell your conversion you could put ads in the SDC and AOAI
magazines. But I must warn you that most Studebaker owners are cheep.
And yes I include myself since I have never let anyone work on a car I
have owned that was out of warantee.
And yes the use of aluminum if just fine. We use it all of the time in my business, designing military vehicles.
By the way, where do you live?
David L |
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Transtar60
Golden Hawk Member
USA
510 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 06:54:51 AM
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Tom,
You asked a question about why you only had two inquiries for your
product. I gave my theory/opinion. Thats all. Just my humble opinion.
Thanks.And no Mr. Turner is not my brother.
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N8N
Commander Member
USA
2156 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2006 : 07:55:33 AM
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Just as an aside, Porsche switched from steel to aluminum for the
control arms on the 944 series; for most serious racing classes the
later, aluminum control arms are prohibited, you need to run the early
ones or else aftermarket tubular deals. Too many failures, apparently.
I'm not saying that aluminum is definitely bad; just that you have to be careful with it...
nate
--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
https://home.comcast.net/~njnagel |
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new53
Champion Member
47 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2006 : 11:08:55 PM
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From someone thoroughly outclassed by the knowledge of the people on
this thread - it's quite the education. If nothing else, at least there
is a great deal of passion out there about the hobby, and that can help
everyone.
With regard to offering a better setup, I will be
shopping for a front disc brake conversion. As a novice, I selfishly
want everything in a box, with great instructions, at a competitive
price. Your setup makes sense - let everyone know if you start to sell
the conversion as a package. I know I'd absolutely be interested.
Unfortunately,
sometimes the best setup just doesn't find a market. There was this car
company from Indiana that offered a car that would seat four and do
170mph out of the showroom, while the big three were still
contemplating the "muscle car era". The Indiana company only sold nine
of them, and went out of business - go figure.
G. Howes |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2006 : 04:09:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by new53
Your
setup makes sense - let everyone know if you start to sell the
conversion as a package. I know I'd absolutely be interested.
I am trying to put together a first run of 8 sets to be sold. With
the cost of material, and unfortunately not being able to do the work
machining the adapters myself, my overhead is high. If I do offer
these, its NOT going to allow me to quit my job. The Cobra brake
setup requires 17 inch rims, that might be a problem for some people.
The GT brake setup can all be bought from Autozone, BUT they require
the machining of the hubs. Since the person buying the kit HAS the
hubs, thats an operation that "he" must have done, that creates a bit
of a problem (I have been doing a LOT of thinking on this). So the
Cobra kit would be an easier install, but would require larger wheels
and "rubber band tires". To me this is a GOOD thing. I have priced
the rest of the Cobra kit online, and its just shy of $500 for all
the parts (thats AFTER the adapter). This will get you :
Two Aluminum 2 piston "PBR" Calipers in black (Mach 1/Cobra) w/pads
Two 13 inch zinc coated cross drilled and slotted rotors
Two stainless steel high pressure braided brake hoses
These are all new parts, the price I mention includes shipping inside
California (outside would be more obviously) and tax.
If we go with the GT setup on the other end of the spectrum, Autozone
carries EVERYTHING, and it would be roughly 225.00 including tax for :
Two Reman Calipers (they have yellow or red for more)
Two new 11 inch vented rotors
One metallic brake pad set
Two rubber brake lines
My inital calculations are looking like 150 to 250 for the 4 required
brackets, thats the two billet 6061-T6 aircraft grade aluminum caliper
mounting brackets (which weigh under 2 pounds each), and the two steel
hose mounting brackets.
So if you look at the extreme end of the "factory" brakes, thats about
$750 MAX total for some awesome brakes, if I my costs for the bracket
hit the high end of my estimate. Thats 100 more then Steeltech, but
its also a LOT more brakes, easier to find replacement parts, simple
upgradability to even 14 inch and 8 piston calipers. On the cheap end
thats $475 total for the GT brakes with the high estimate for the
brackets, yet still gives you the ability to upgrade later to Cobra
brakes, since the brackets fit either caliper.
Either setup requires the Napa wheel studs at 2 bucks a piece.
I plan on taking this Avanti to a road course track eventually, so I
want brakes that will stop it, lots of early Mustang guys are using
the 13" Cobra brakes on their cars. They look great and stop great. I
see them as a MUST if you are going for this look.
Tom |
Edited by - sbca96 on 03/12/2006 04:23:41 AM |
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studegary
Commander Member
USA
1954 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2006 : 3:22:22 PM
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| In a hurry, so maybe I missed it. If so, I apologize. I see that the Cobra brakes require 17 inch wheels. What is the wheel requirement with the GT kit? |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2006 : 4:22:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by studegary
In a hurry, so maybe I missed it. If so, I apologize. I see that the Cobra brakes require 17 inch wheels. What is the wheel requirement with the GT kit?
GT setup can use 15's. The Stude wheel will not fit. Any steel rim
that fits a 94-04 Stang will fit this brake setup, I was told that the
Crown Victoria wheels have the same offset as Mustang, so they would
fit, and should also use the stock hubcaps.
Here are the brakes that I will be upgrading too, from the GT brakes
I used to make the design for the Mustang brackets (I will be going
with the "Mach 1" caliper though, its plain black, no "Cobra" text.
Tom |
Edited by - sbca96 on 06/10/2006 6:15:13 PM |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2006 : 7:57:40 PM
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I found this today ... I think that this is the master I used, I was looking at it
now that I have the 4 wheel discs on, and its looking kinda "icky" after being
on there for over 10 years. I think I will stop by Autozone and buy a new
master cylinder to be ready for my Cobra brakes which I will order soon.
https://www.studebaker-info.org/Text/AvantidualmcSG.txt
"Here is what you will need. 1 ea. NAPA/United master cylinder 36307 (or Bendix 11515; this unit fits a
variety of '71-'75 Mopars, but a specific model to nail it to is a '71 Dodge Polara, 360 ci V-8)"
I also solved the design issue of the lower caliper bolt, rotating the caliper up
about 10 degrees from where I originally put it, now makes both bolts easily
accessible. The only drawback, is that the metal part of the brake line needs
to be bent inward and away from the upper a-arm - a task easily done by hand.
I also found I did something amazingly stupid, after all that cool design work,
I used caliper mounting bolts that were too long, and they made a nice groove
on the inside of the rotor! Now, its not a huge deal, since the reason I GOT the
brakes for free, is that the rotors were worn out and needed replacement. I
went to Autozone and picked up two new rotors, and a pad set. The GT rotors
are 25 dollars a piece, and the pads were only 15 bucks. :D B)
Tom |
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sbca96
Commander Member
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2006 : 6:26:09 PM
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Now on to the rear! I have not finished the install, the brakes function, but
I have not hooked up the parking brake. I originally installed the calipers
opposite to the 98 Mustang (forward of the rear axle) because it looked like
the factory parking brake cable would fit that way, but after getting it on
the car, it was obvious that they would work better in the factory location.
My plan is to use the factory cable, with a tube on the cable end to relieve
the jacket when the handle is pulled - we shall see!
The Ford rear disc calipers are bolted to a bracket which bolts to the rear
axle, so modifying this bracket is more simple then starting over. The center
hole was enlarged and a "break out" was created so that the bracket could be
mounted to the back of the axle flange.
Setting up the rear hubs is the same as the front, except the diameter inside
the rear disc is larger then the front, so the hub doesnt need to be machined.
As with the front, the longer wheel studs with shoulders were pressed in. The
holes in the disc were drilled out, as with the front discs.
The following pictures show the brackets on the wrong sides, though the way
they mount either side is the same. The error was explained above. These
pictures came out too good to not use - you get the idea. Here is the 'new'
bracket mounted on the backside of the axle flange:
Then you put the drilled rotor onto the new wheel studs:
Thread on the lug nuts:
And then tighten the lugs down evenly to "draw" the rotor onto the shoulders
of the wheel studs. After you do this, the rotor should stay there, or you
can leave the lugs on until the caliper is on. Once the caliper is hooked up
and the pedal has been pushed, the caliper will self align, and the pads will
hold the rotor in place while the tire assembly is off. To remove the rotor
from the hub takes a sharp blow from a rubber mallet.
Once this is completed, its a matter of following the instructions in the
Haynes manual for a 98 Mustang GT. You bolt on the caliper mount bracket:
Slide the pads into the mount bracket, & then put the caliper over the pads:
I bought new hoses for a 98 Mustang GT from Autozone, the hoses have brackets
as part of the hose assembly. The Avanti has a welded on bracket for the
rear swaybar. There is a hole that is unused. This was a perfect place to
mount the hose bracket. The length of your shocks should be checked to make
sure that when the axle is hanging, there isnt any strain on the hoses:
The passenger side hose assembly has a dual block, I decided to use this as
a splitter, and run the center metal line out to here, and then bend a new
line to cross back over to the drivers rear. There is more then one way to
go about doing this. I just didnt want to stick with the Stude rubber line,
since its not going to get easier to find. I am glad I replaced it, after I
had a chance to inspect it, I found that it was rubbing against SOMETHING.
The combination of the front & rear set, makes for a balanced factory system.
I have also found that the front Cobra setup is balanced to the GT rear. It
was relayed to me from a Ford parts supplier that "no one ever needs to add
a proportioning valve when upgrading to the Cobra front, from GT front, on a
GT Mustang". Thats good news for part 3, which will happen right after I get
my tax refund! I plan on zinc plated cross drilled and slotted 13 inch rotors
front with 'PBR' aluminum 2 piston Cobra calipers, and matching zinc plated
drilled and slotted rear rotors for the rear.
Tom |
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Topic |
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Stude tech 94-04 'Stang disc brake adapters return
