My own experience with stripping was razor blades to the primer then POR Strip ( by POR 15 ). The POR Strip is fairly mild and did not soften or damage the fibreglass. The process took me quite awhile throughout one summer so the stripper had a chance to evaporate off before it went in for pain. My body shop also baked the car before they started painting. I didn't try to make the car's body look any smoother than the way it came from the factory so I can't advise you on smoothing the natural look. The other method would be to have the car media blasted. ------------ Sandpaper will not scar the glass if you progress to a very fine grade to finish it off. to get rid of imperfections and "bringing out an edge" use sandpaper on a block, for that matter always use a block when you are sanding. that advice is being passed down from a man who does profesional refinishing on sailplanes made from fiberglass where the finish is essential to performance. conrad r-4982 ----------- Having done the stripping thing to my previous Avanti back in the 70's, yes it works well - I used a product called E-Z-L that took off 3 paint jobs all in one go, down to the gelcoat with no damage to the fibreglass. Just use a putty knife to scape off the paint and please put drop sheets on the ground, BUT, be careful where you get that stuff. Mask off any areas you don't want affected by the stripper! Don't leave masking tape on for long or you'll regret it in a whole bunch more elbow grease getting it off. Always block sand areas you want to have that edge. Stripper will eat into any bondo that has been used on the body before. As was said before here, make sure the paint shop bakes the car for a day to drive out all possible moisture that is trapped in the porous FRP. ------------------- I'm taking my '79 down with a product called PeelAway #7. It's a non- solvent based, non toxic paste that's "buttered" on and covered with a paper cloth. After 24-48 hrs, a plastic ice scraper takes it down to the 'glass. I spoke with the manufacturer (my company distributes their full line) and they said it's a mainstay with the Corvette resto shops. Won't soften the glass, though it does soften up any spot putty that was used in a previous repaint. April 2001 ------------------ am faced with repainting my 87 LSC due to the scratches in the car. Instead of redoing the silver (which is almost impossible to match if further problems develope) I would like to know if black was an original color for the car. ---------------------------- I've been putting off painting my '63 R-1 Avanti for a couple of years now, but I think it's finally time I tend to this task. I'm considering using a chemical stripper to remove the existing 4 paint jobs! No visible body damage, but I know that at least a portion of the left front fender was replaced at some time 'cause there is a joint line at the apex of the wheel wheel. Also a couple of stress cracks at the top of each headlight bucket, where the two molded pieces meet. Your restoration page indicated that you utilized chem. strippers on your RQA? What was the name of the product, and how can I get hold of the vendor? Anything I should watch out for in the stripping process (i.e., "sensitive" areas)? How's the general shape of the surface once stripping is complete? Will it need a bunch of finishing work to get a decent profile/finish (i.e., no depressions w/uniform surface)? Seems to me that there are a few "wavy" areas that may need work (down around the weep holes for the doors for example). Any neutralization issues for the stripper? I'd like to go back to a color matching the original Studebaker gold, and add a clear coat. Any ideas where I can find some cross matches to current paint system colors? Were you happy w/the products that you utilized, or would you recommend something different now? I don't have much experience with modern paint systems, and any help at all would be appreciated! I was thinking of doing the stripping/surface prep myself, and having a professional handle the color/top coats. Since surface is all important, how easy was it to get it to an acceptable condition? Were you happy with the end result? Sorry I'm so wordy, but I could really utilize the benefit of your experience, and it appears that you have similar quality expectations to my own. Also really appreciated the "wheels" page. Plenty of useful data! Thanks for your time!! Mark M., Denver, CO -------------------------------------------- Roy, The reason that sailplanes are almost always white is that fiberglass softens with heat. 140 degrees farenheit is the critical temperature. Granted, my sailplane wing is a stressed structure while my Avanti body is not. But it's still something to be concerned about. Black is a hot color. Peter ------------------------------ Hello Roy, Sorry to hear that you have to have your car repainted. I had mine done up here in CT with no problem. They used a computer to match the color, which happened to be Jaguar Silver. I had gone to several parts stores to try to match the color silver, only came up with GM No's, and nothing seemed to work. Let me know how you make out, and if you need any further assistance, let me know. ------------------------------- And didn't I hear something about black showing up imperfections much moreso than white? The darker the color, the more pronounced the variations in the glass??? --------------------------------- HI am getting close to starting to paint my 64 R-2. Has anyone had first hand experience with priming bare fiberglass? I am thinking of using a product such as Dupont Veriprime followed by a primer surfacer. Any comments? What about the catalyzed primers, three part primers, etc? I would appreciate any input... Thanks JF _________________________________________________________ oel: When painting my R1, I used Dupont Veriprime on the bare fiberglass, then used red oxide, acrylic lacquer primer. Top coat was Dupont Diamond Gloss Black lacquer.... and no problems with the paint lifting, crazing, etc..... that was in 1994..... Painted an R2 last summer and so far, no problems either... but it's not on the road yet... Lew -------------------------------------------- The biggest problem with painting an Avanti is that sometimes the primer will not stick to the fiberglass. After about a week the primer will peel off, sometimes in large sheets. If this happens just scuff the area with 400 grit sandpaper and reprime. Try to leave the primer on the car at least a month before applying color. Get as many books on painting Corvettes and Kit cars as possible. There was a good article in AOAI about two years ago on painting Avanti's. David Hodges ----------------------------------- Also, let theprimer cure ( and outgas) in the sunlight for about a week before shooting it. frank R5421 ----------------------------------- left my primer on for 6 months and No problem. don -------------------------------------- The reason your primer peels is because of 2 things: 1) use of regular primer is not good on fiberglass!!, I will only use a 2 part product called "Eliminator" by morton paints, it is very thick, have the paint store shake it before you take it home. also, it is basically a fiberglass resin with a gray color added to it. once mixed, you have about 15 minutes to apply it, (mix spray gun cup at a time) once done clean the spray gun at once, or throw it away if you don't. 2: when priming, you want the surface to be rough, not 400 grit, use either 80 grit dry or 150 wet, (the eliminator will fill in the sand scratches) with the longest block you can find, then put on about 3 good coats. if you sand with 400, before you prime the surface is too smooth and the sealer/primer will not stick. But most important of all, use a good wax and grease remover, at the collision shop I work at we use, believe it or not, formula 409, (California has banned wax and grease remover, and its cheap) and its coming our way (Indiana) At our shop we run about 250-300 cars a month through the doors. The draw back to using eliminator is: the only way to sand the eliminator is wet sand! dry sanding does not work very well. I usually spray a guide coat of another color primer over the eliminator, then block with 320 wet or dry, with lots of soapy water, again with the longest block you can find. Once you have ALL the surfaces sanded, wash the car with a lot of soap and water, be sure to clean the wheel wells, and use the hose on the underside as much as possible, (the cleaner the better) then clean again with 409, and your ready to paint. Jim Turner --------------------------------------------- s there a recommended chemical stripper for removing the silicon contaminant? Chris Altenburg -------------------------------- Chris, Ditzler Prep-Solve. Recommended by a guy who has fixed gliders for 20 years. It's what he uses. PCKing ---------------------------------- Peter, I am not a big fan on paint stripper on fiberglass! As chemical gets into the fiberglass and is VERY hard to get it all out! especially in the nooks and crannies. When I painted my Avanti (1981) I used my straight line air sander (approx. 14" long) with 80 grit and blocked off all the old paint. This does 2 things, 1: blocks the whole body, and 2: also roughs up the surface very well, allows "eliminator" to bond properly. up until I drove it through an Indiana winter, 3 years ago, it still looked pretty good, but what do you expect for an 18 year old paint job. I used Dupont Centauri single stage paint. On my 52 Commander Convertible, I used Glassurit single stage, painted in 1990. I think maybe this year, depending on time, I will repaint the Avanti, I will probably use Glassurit again. Brand really does not matter, as long as its a name brand, but which ever brand you use, be sure to use their products from the primer up through the top coat and clear coat if you go 2 stage. This is very important, as no manufacturer will warranty the paint if you mix and match! as they will blame the "other guys" product. Jim -------------------------------------------- Jim, I agree. I don't like solvents on glass either. But the silicon in miracle waxes act as a mold release. We've seen repairs fail because of it. Of course, a sailplane wing undergoes a lot more flexing and thermal stress than does an Avanti fender. Every glider repair surface is stripped to remove silicon from the surface so that the new epoxy can bond correctly. I offer that observation as a possible contributor to paint bond failures. Cars tend to see a lot more silicon based products than do gliders. Peter -------------------------------------------- Analyze this one. (it's not the first time I painted a car) I did strip my car with Cap'n Lees Spray n Strip. It takes off = everything but the primer. That came off with 4-O steel wool and lacquer = thinner. Did what I thought was 'overkill' on neutralizing the stripper = and 'Yes' it will soften the gelcoat, but it hardens back up when the = stripper is thoroughly removed with lacquer thinner / Prep-sol.=20 Spies-Hecker (German) filler and glaze were used. (not cheap). Many = many many hours of fill, shadow coat and block sanding, installed a 'spray = booth' in the garage with filtered and conditioned air, PPG catalyst = primer (6 coats), PPG color ( 8 coats) and PPG Clear (12 coats). After = the paint, the car was still in the fitting out stage for interior, etc = and sat for 6 months (heated garage). It was then sanded with 600, 1200, = 2000 and buffed with 5000 and 10000 liquid. The finish is absolutely = stunning. It looks like you can fall into it.=20 Now the bad part. .....over a year and a half after the paint job, the = left front fender started to get the measles in a small area adjacent to = where the master cylinder is,=20 both the inner and outer fender. I can only attribute this to not = cleaning that area well enough where silicone brake fluid must have = splashed over the years. I was cognizant of this when I prepped tha car = and like I said, 'overkill' on cleaning off the bare glass..... I believe = some other precautions must be made in these areas, like spraying a few = coats of sealer to prevent this from happening. I'll be redoing that = fender this spring..... The outcome of my paint job using PPG products was absolutely beautiful.= =20 ----------- on the hood and decklid- only do the outer 6" all the way around. They can also "dust" the inside/undersides to remove any loose paint and rust... Strip the middle sections with chemical stripper, and then follow with 80 grit on your DA sander. Ray ============== Good advice Ray, But the most important part is: If you use PPG primers use PPG paints! they are made to work together, and should you have a problem, PPG will stand behind it, if you use PPG primers, and Dupont paint, Should you have a problem, You will grow old and die before they decide what went wrong, the finger pointing will never stop, That's what happened to Steve Blake on the Avanti paint problems! Jim Turner ========= First use metal prep, (follow directions) then use a product called Grenadine (sp). Then use a "good" etching primer, then a 2 part epoxy primer. Most importantly, what ever manufacturer's color coat/clearcoat you plan on using, ONLY use their etching primer, epoxy primer and product from start to finish! That way IF you have a problem, you go to one source! Remember when Steve Blake had paint problems on the Avanti 2's? he was not using the same primer and topcoat, the mfg. of the topcoat told him to go f^%$ off. The paint manufactures spend millions on chemical make up so their products are compatible with themselves, so their system works together! And there is no guarantee that another topcoat will work as good as they intended. We use Dupont at the shop, but, PPG, Glassurit, Spies-Hecker, and Sikkens are also good products. Jim Turner ----------------- You don't have to use the etching primer, BUT, it has an acid in it to "etch" the bare metal. Of course, do not use etching primer over painted surfaces, its a waste of materials, and that equals $$$. The 2 part primers made now are better than the old lacquer systems, you can use lacquer primers on your cars, but, be prepared for a LOT of shrinkage and sand scratches to show up after the paint sits in the sun for a while! The whole idea behind the 2 part primers is to reduce shrinkage to almost nothing. On a restoration, that is usually not a problem, as the vehicle is not primed and painted in a 24 hour period. when I painted my Avanti in 1981, I blocked it down with 80 grit sandpaper on my straight line sander, (usually for sanding plastic filler) I then used a 2 part primer called Eliminator, made by Morton paints. Back in 1981, it was $100 bucks a gallon, it was basically fiberglass resin with a little bit of gray color added, when the hardener was mixed in, (hardener looked and smelled like fiberglass hardener) I had approx. 15 minutes to spray it on, and clean my spray gun out. The stuff is a bear to dry sand, I blocked it out with 220 grit and a lot of water. The best part is, if more plastic filler was needed, it could be put over the eliminator, and re sprayed with the same. The BC/CC became popular because the CC "protects" the BC from ultraviolet rays, and helps keep the paint from fading. we do not use primer to "straighten" anything, that's what the plastic filler is used for. You CAN tell who messed up the job, either the body tech did crappy work, or the painter did, it ID obvious which one screwed up! We spend approximately 12-15K a month on paint and body materials, We use Dupont, and 3M products, one of the reasons is that Dupont warranties the paint for 5 years, (we offer a lifetime guarantee) and if a vehicle comes back, We do not make any money on a come back! You get what you pay for, and you pay for what you get! If you use cheap materials, and mix and match systems, you are only asking for trouble! Jim Turner