Borg Warner - Detroit Gear 250 Transmission - The Studebaker Automatic Drive transmission was - and is - one very fine transmission. Popular Science did a very nice piece on the Automatic Drive in 1950. Automatic Drive was a joint effort of Studebaker and Borg-Warner (Detroit Gear Division). The transmission allows the driver to switch from torque converter-gear drive to direct drive and back again at any speed between 18 mph and 58 mph. Above 58, the torque converter is always locked out, below 18 it is always locked in. Popular Science gave this summary of what a driver can do with Automatic Drive: "One criticism often voiced against automatic transmissions is that they deprive the driver of choice. That this isn't true of the Studebaker/Borg- Warner drive is shown by the following description of what happens when the selector lever is in the drive position. It's also eloquent proof that motorists must understand their transmissions to get the most out of them. "At the moment of starting, with the selector lever at "D," the power train is through the torque converter and intermediate gear. Starting torque ratio in the transmission (not counting the advantage of rear-axle ratio) is 3.08 to 1, or more than three turns of the engine crankshaft for every turn of the propeller shaft. Automatic shifts from intermediate gear to direct drive occur within the following limits, depending on speed, throttle position and load: "1. Starting with a very light accelerator depression, the transmission shifts from intermediate to direct at about 18 mph. "2. Starting with full throttle (not depressed past the kick-down abutment on the floor-board), the transmission shifts into direct at about 35 mph. "3. Staring with any accelerator depression between between light and full throttle, the transmission shifts into direct between 18 and 35 mph, depending on accelerator position. "4. Starting with full throttle and accelerator depressed past the kick- down point, the shift into direct drive occurs at about 58 mph. "5. Coasting in direct with accelerator released, the transmission downshifts into intermediate gear plus converter at 12 mph. 6. Direct drive may be over-ruled to provide added torque available in intermediate by depressing the throttle to the kick-down point at any speed below 50 mph." I also can attest to the economy of the transmission. My 55 Commander regular turns in 24-26 mpg. Leighzer ------------------------ > I never thought it was right and if you reved the engine up at all in >nuetral you would hear a loud clunk. >(Gordon Bueling)<<< Gordon, My DG250M does the same thing but you have to rev it up pretty high. What causes that? My tranny works great, with the exception of reverse. ------------- That is the convertor going into lock up mode. This is a good way to destroy something. You should not rev these cars (AT's) to high rpm in neutral or park. I learned the hard way about 40 years ago. Gary L. ---- I don't know about any other modern cars, but BMW has a very clear warning not to rev the motor of an automatic trans car with it in neutral or park. Substantial damage to the trans will result. -Dick- ------ That was a design flaw of the ZF autos used in 80's and early 90's BMWs. If you selected a drive gear and then put it back into park the clutch packs would not release completely. It was discovered when some states implemented a 2-part emissions test (idle and 2500 RPM) people would go to the station, leave their car running (as they were instructed to do) the operator would pull the car in, test emissions at idle, rev it up to 2500 for the second part of the test, fill out the paperwork, and the car would not move under its own power again. *NEVER* buy a German car with an automatic. They just aren't popular over there, and as a result they don't have the serious development time and effort put into them that US built automatics do. That's one for the 'murricans... we build darned good trannys. Another example of a common problem is the leaking seals between the trans and the final drive on A1 and A2 chassis VW's. The ATF would leak into the final drive with predictable results. An easy fix, just replace the seal (yeah right) nate ------ ---------- I have not consulted the guy who rebuilt it yet (Jerry, he's in Napa, CA -- sorry) because I am fairly certain that it's not his rebuild that's the problem. As mentioned, this guy rebuilt trannies for a living. I'll take StudeBob's advice and call him when I'm convinced I've done the adjustments correctly. That said, I once heard that if you are reading something and you get to the end of it and don't understand it, you've glossed over or misunderstood a word or concept upon which everything else rested. The fix is to go back and ensure you understand every word. It's worked for me in the past and I'm hoping someone could help me interpret correctly. For example, after making one adjustment, the manual says to "remove the angle iron" and then check the position of the governor lever with the accelerator pedal to the floor. Well, AFAICT, the angle iron connects the pedal to the governor lever. If the angle iron is removed, the movement of the pedal doesn't affect the lever, now does it? Am I just being dense? *help* James ========= It's been awhile since I read the book but if I remember correctly, earlier in the text it tells you to cut a piece of angle iron to wedge between the park brake handle and the accellerator pedal to hold the pedal on the floor. That's the angle iron they are telling to remove. =========== Parts availability http://members.aol.com/autotran/ http://members.aol.com/AutoTran/3bakits1.html -------- Three years ago when I was ready to drain and refill the Detroit Gear automatic (DG-200) in our 1954 Commander, I contacted Borg-Warner about the proper replacement for Type A ATF. They said that it was replaced by Dexron III. I also asked the SDC automatic transmission experts and was told basically the same thing -- Dexron-Mercon III. David Levesque said that if you want slightly firmer shifts, use Type F; Dexron if you want the shifts a tiny bit softer. Other than that, there is no difference. Our car runs and shifts fine with Dexron-Mercon III. Kindest regards, Alan Mende 526 Pine Hill Road Hummelstown, PA 17036-8020 ------------------------- I have a question or two about the DG tranny. I got one with my Packard engine. It's a DG-200 though, (I think). Is it the same tranny as the DG-250? Also, it has something that looks like an overdrive unit on the back of the transmission. Very short and strong looking. In addition to the normal shift rod going to the tranny, there is an "extra" rod that goes back to this unit. It also has some type of solenoid or servo with wires going to it. That thing is on the r/h side and very back of this "overdrive looking unit". ------------- No, the 200 was designed for the early V8 engines that were below 259 cid. ----------------- The solenoid is a no creep thang. Also, I believe it eliminates pressure from the rear pump when activated during braking. -------------- Any early shop manual should have complete information. This is a very sophisticated transmission still unmatched in some ways by modern units. -------- Thanks for the answer on this one JET. Sounds like you are pretty up on these things. It IS a DG200, but the funny thing about it is that it came from a '57 Packard. I know you said it was for a "below 259" V8, but from the numbers on my engine I have a 289 with a supercharger. It's supposed to be a real low miles engine and from what I see it probably is. It looks like the tranny has never been changed but....... Might be that the tranny was replaced at sometime? Anyway I'm gonna sell the transmission complete with all the linkage, torque converter and the 2 piece drive shaft. What do you think would be a fair price to ask? I don't want to put it on e-bay if someone on the NG needs it. It would be nice to help off-set the cost of my engine. -------