T700R4 in a Studebaker Avanti - --Feb 2002 -- For the 700th time, there are a million details which make this swap a real bear. Trimming the inside corner of the passengers footwell is the easiest part of the swap. 1. Dave L's adapter doesn't always align perfectly. Took a couple of hours of reaming and fiddling to even get it to bolt up two hours labor, $70. 2. A new rear crossmember has to be fabricated, using the GM rear mount. If the front motor mounts aren't new, replace them while you have everything loose, another $200. 3. The stock Avanti shift linkage doesn't really work. The leverage is wrong and shift effort is much too high. Really needs to use a GM shifter, another $100. 4. You will need about $125 worth of carb to transmission throttle valve (TV cable) linkage to make it work. Don't even try to make it yourself, but go to Bow Tie Overdrive. You will need a 1/2" 4-hole carb spacer, another $35. It won't fit the stock Carter, so a new 600 AFB is another $200. 5. Bow Tie Overdrive also has an add-on lockup kit which works just fine, about another $50. 6. The driveshaft has to be shortened and rebalanced, another $100. 7. New speedo cable and driven gear and housing, another $75. 8. The new starter, another $100, I got from Dave's recommendation has the hot wire post hitting the steering linkage. Still not sure what to do there. 9. New exhaust downpipes. The stock exhaust pipes won't work, so if the system isn't new, might as well replace the whole shebang while you are in there, another $375. Having given all the problems to be overcome, I highly recommend it, as it transforms the car into a real daily driver. If you pay someone to do it right, better budget at least $1000 and $1500 is not out of sight for a quality installation. ----- Footwell modifications are not myth...the servo behind the cooler lines requires a good 6" square hole. There is some grinding necessary at the very top of the tunnel to ease installation also. If it wasn't for the shifter issues, that I really didn't have to deal, with the whole thing is very straightforward. There are clearance issues at the pitman arm and some rerouting of starter cables. Nothing a grinder couldn't take care of, though. thx, jv. ---May 2002 --- 1. Fabricate new rear crossmember and transmission mount - $100 2. New Carter AFB carb, air cleaner, TV cable, custom linkage and pressure guage - $500 3. New shifter and linkage - $200 4. New exhaust downpipes - $200 5. New driveshaft - $100 6. New speedometer gears - $50 7. Adapter and starter - $450 8. Professionally modified and guaranteed 700R4 - $1250. ----------------- --------- R4370 is back on the road and better than ever. Some of you might remember I bought one of Dave Levesque's Studebaker-engine-to-GM-transmission adapter plates for $275. It is the only one of its type out there, but it is a crude thing. It took at least three hours of filing, fitting, forcing and adapting to make it mount up. Big hint - fit the adapter to the transmission before trying to make it fit to the engine. My 700R4 came from the local wrecking yard "rebuilt" with a 90-day warranty for $450. The driveshaft had to be modified, the exhaust system had to be modified, the shifter had to be modified, the TV cable and mount is still being tweeked, the lockup switch still has to be wired and I have no idea how fast I am going. The good news is the 700R4 transforms a '63 R1 from a noisy toy into a useable daily driver - it is quicker off the line, much quieter around town and especially on the highway. Details when it is completed. The GM converter seems to be tighter than the B-W, so I noticed a rougher idle. I had thoughts of going with a new Edelbrock #1406 that others had claimed to use with success, since it has the correct TV cable arm for the 700R4. When I tried to mount it, the TV cable arm at the bottom of the throttle lever hit the exhaust heat crossover on the intake manifold. Since the top of the air cleaner already hits the insulating pad on the inside of the hood, there doesn't appear to be room to add a spacer to raise the carb. How did you guys make the #1406 fit on an R1? Jack Vines July 2001 ( jackv@studentambassadors.org ) --------------- I used an old aftermarket aluminum intake manifold with my 1406 carb that I then ground to create clearance for the TV cable. Altenburg July 2001 ------------------------------ You should NOT use the standard kick-down cable hole in the Edelbrock for your 700 TV cable connection. When the throttle opens and pulls the cable, the "geometry" of the swing from that connection is incorrect. The distance from the pivot point on the throttle and the geometry of the "swing" as the cable pulls is the "critical" aspect of the TV cable attachment. You "MUST" buy the adaptor if you expect the trans to shift correctly and last any period of time. ====================== (Re 80's Avanti II with factory T700R4) The yellow unit located in the speedometer cable as it leaves the transmission does not control the cruise control (the cruise control speed sensor is attached to the drive shaft behind the transmission). The yellow unit controls the transmission torque converter. When this unit does not work the transmission will "hunt" at certain speeds and not work properly. These units are prone to failure. Even when they are working they can leak transmission oil. You can purchase a new one from Nostalgic Motors, or I heard that they are available at the Avanti Factory in Georgia from a friend who was there at the conference last summer. I fixed my new unit from leaking (yes, a new leaking unit!) by drilling out the pop rivets, throwing away the bad gasket, putting some epoxy between the two pieces, and fastening them back together with some small stainless steel screws and nuts. Tom Gipe RQB 3636 May 2002 ------- ------------------------------- 700R4 in Avanti II Yes, it's in a 1970 tho, not with a Stude engine. I didn't have to use Dave's kit, altho I have picked his brain a bit on the performance aspects of the transmission. That's the reason he probably associated me with a Stude install. I have owned an R2 before and can comment on what you may have to resolve in the process of getting it in. Easy things: Change the driveshaft - You have to get one made to fit and balanced - Usually a good truck driveline place is quickest - measurement is after the trans is bolted in - You have to acquire a good yoke for the trans from a similar install Camaro or Vette - measure the distance , center (bottom) yoke to center (bottom) yoke. You have to provide the yoke to the driveshaft guy so he knows what universal to use. Change the Shifter quadrant. 700 is a 4 speed - Even tho I used a Corvette console assembly, you may be able to just hook up the existing shifter rod to the trans. The internal detent pattern will change the location of the shift lever, so you'll have to get a shifter quadrant lens from an 82 or something that used the 200R4 ( same pattern) I've heard that the leverage on this fiot is wrong, so you may have to use a GM shifter. The 700 trans mount is almost right on the original Stude support. You just have to enlarge the holes in the crossmember and use big washers. I believe these bolt hole threads on the 700 are metric also, as was the nut holding the shift detent lever on. More tenuous... The one thing I would be concerned about is the height of the trans in the tunnel with a 63-64 Stude. With my car, the body was raised to accomodate the GM engine ( supposedly), so the trans had 1 - 2 inches of clearance in the tunnel. The body on Studes, as you know , is right down on the frame and the space is significantly less. The exhaust on the drivers side has to be modified as the 700 pan is bigger overall and offset to the left.. I took my intermediate pipes, reversed them and had the ends swedged to fit on the opposite way. This gave me the wider cut around the pan, but then you have to enlarge the pass-thru holes in the X-member to allow the wider routing. You have to fashion a means of attaching the TV throttle cable to the carb ( new Carter or Edelbrock), then raise the carb to avoid the manifold interfering with the TV ear attachment on the carb. You also have to figure out a way to establish a TV cable lock mechanism behind the carb to hold the TV cable in place. Then you have to figure out a way to accurately adjust the initial TV pressure. If you screw this up, you can trash the trans and quickly if you run out and do a power shift. I recommend a guage attached to the main line pressure port , right over the shift lever on the trans body. The pressures can be different for various applications.. You should be able to feel the shift in all ranges 1-2, 2-3 and 3-4 at moderate throttle. If the 3-4 is just an rpm drop, you have to increase the cable pull a it and put up with a harder 1-2 and 2-3 or else there's a pack of clutches that will be wiped You have to wire the torque converter lockup to function automatically or on demand. Depending on your axle ratio, the heat buildup can be dramatic. I have a temp guage on mine and when it gets to 210, it's switched on lockup. You can watch the needle drop as you drive. Heat is the big enemy of this trans. Most 700 failures involve the 4th gear system. In fear of damaging mine, I added an external filter, added an external cooler and ventilated the lower converter housing ( then added an air scoop that became the best bug catcher you could find) .... In 4th and lockup, the engine loafs around 1600-2000 rpm at 60. depending on your axle ratio. You have to be careful not to hook a 700 up to a hi-perf engine unless you have a radically high rear, since the cruising rpm will be outside the lowest operating envelope of the engine. This is kind of like my situation as the range on my Jasper is 2100-6800. My mileage drops to about 14-15 unless I can cruise at 80-90 mph ( where can you do that anymore.) that;'s why my lockup is switched, so I can drive without it on cool days ( it adds 2-300 rpm while off) I never test drove a car with a 700 before doing this and was surprised at the 1st gear performance. In fact, I didn't like it. My axle is 3:54 and from a standing start, it's zip-bam-TYmam. The 1-2 shift is hard and comes in fast, I was told that after 2-3000 miles it softens, but has'nt yet on mine That's all I can think of. There are some photos on the website regarding my install ===================== The TV cable attachment point on the throttle linkage: In relation to the throttle shaft centerpoint, the TV cable mount is "about 1.094 - 1.125" below and about .025 - .5 inches to the rear of the shaft pivot point You should not use the standard kick-down cable hole in the Edelbrock for your 700 TV cable connection. When the throttle opens and pulls the cable, the "geometry" of the swing from that connection is incorrect. The distance from the pivot point on the throttle and the geometry of the "swing" as the cable pulls is the "critical" aspect of the TV cable attachment. You "MUST" buy the adaptor if you expect the trans to shift correctly and last any period of time. ======================================= July 2005 ------ The tunnel mod was one of the easier things to accomplish. I bonded a piece of 3/16 "rubber" to the tunnel from the inside to cover the hole. It's invisible from the inside and eliminates any chance of knocking that a hard piece of fiberglass cause as the engine vibrates and twists. The shifter is from an early 90's Camaro. The shifter quadrant escutcheon was cut out of the center console and fitted to the Avanti console trim piece that I cut, covered with vinyl and sprayed turquoise. The escutcheon around the quadrant was originally black and I sprayed it with Stainless Steel paint. The armrest piece is out of an 80's GM G body that was cut down so that the curve upward blended nicely with the original. It fits over the existing console with the lid removed. I'm not completely finished with the details yet. I'm going to bring pieces of stainless up along the edge where the turquoise meets the black and carpet the black area to mimic the factory original detail. Re: the trans conversion...if I did it again I would probably do the 200R4, mainly because of the gear spacing. The low, low 1st in the 700 is fun but it seems to me that the closer spacing of the 200 might make for a little nicer overall drive. At the time I was considering the swap, Dave LaVesque said he did not do any testing of his adapter with the 200 and I already had a driveshaft that would work without any mods. Don't get me wrong, now that the car is dialed in I LOVE the way it drive ------------ The 3.54 rear ratio is fairly common. Since you are going with a 700R trans with overdrive and lock up converter, you might want to go with a 3.73 or 3.92 if one is readily available. The 3.54 with the lock up and overdrive might "lug" the engine some on the highway; however, I don't think it is so far off you have to worry about changing it. I'm guessing you probably run around 2800 rpm now at 60 mph with the 3.54 and with the overdrive, it would be closer to 1950. A 3.73 would put you around 2050 and a 3.92 about 2150. Even if a 4.09 was available, it would be about 2250. These figures would vary depending on your tire size. ted Harbit -------------------- Oct 2005 Carb TV cable/management ------------------- An adapter from TCI part #376710 corrects the placement of the TV cable to an Edelbrock carb. It provides the proper geometry and cable pull for both the 700R4 and the 200R4.