////////////What's the rest of the story on the Stude T-10? Which years had a Chevy bolt pattern and which years had a Ford one? Was the 4 speed bell housing unique to the 4 speed trany? Will Chevy or Ford T-10's interchange to a Stude or is the pilot shaft different? If so, how (length, diameter, splines, etc.) Thanks, -Dick-////////////// a Muncie M-22, a transmission that is obviously copied from the T-10. Early ('61 to early '62's) have a Chevy bolt pattern. The input shaft is entirely different than a Chevy or a Ford. It has a differnt length, coarse spline. My Muncie has a early T10 input shaft adapted to make it work on Studes. The later T-10's (late'62 to '64) worked with a Ford bolt pattern. The question is can a bell housing for the numerous T-86 work for a T-10 (I don't know) with the late transmission. I know the T-85 car version is very similiar to a T-10, will this bell housing work? Stude used "close ratio" T-10's, but listed a option of a "wide ratio". I personally dislike the close ratio version, thence using the Muncie which has a very nice gear spread. Are there any wide ratio T-10's actually on any Studes? I have a plethora (?) of Ford style T-86 bell housings. If you find they can work for you, you can have your pick. --------------------------- The '64 HRM I picked up in Portland on the Studebaker Lark R3 states that there were two sets of ratios available in the Borg-Warner 4 speeds. The "standard" gearbox was 2.54, 1.89, 1.51, and 1:1. The optional gear set was 2.20, 1.66, 1.31, and 1:1. So, least in '64, there WERE wide ratio T-10's in Studes. BTW, the magazine also states that axle ratios for R3 equipped cars ran from 2.87 to 4.89 with all ratios considered optional and none listed as standard. How would you like to launch a 2.87 car with the close ratio trans? I really like the close ratio (3.54 open rear end). My car is not very fast, but with the close ratio trans (and the solid lifters, and the unsilenced air cleaner), it makes all the right "noises". At my age, making the right noises is probably better than actually having the power . ---------------- I can answer a couple of your questions. The early Studebaker 4 speeds (61-62) used the Chevy pattern and a special matching bell housing. The 63-64 used the regular housing, but both used a Studebaker only pilot shaft. JP -------- The very first 4-sp's in '61 used the Chevy pattern. The bell housing was unique to that tranny. The parts book gives the serial number of the changeover to the Ford style AFAIR. I'll go out on a limb without the parts book in front of me and say the Chevy style used the close ratio gears.. The vast majority of Ford pattern used the wide ratio gears. In fact only the R3/R4 may have offered the Ford style in a close ratio. If'n you are really curious about this I can check the parts books tomorrow to confirm details. randee -------- The Chevy style 4 sp bolt pattern was used on 61V cars and thru the first 200 62V cars. The Ford style 4 sp bolt pattern was used on 63V and 64V cars, as well as after the first 200 62V cars. The bell housing for the Chevy pattern is unique - part #1552737. All other manual tranny cars, except Y1's, use # 1539373. Y1 also takes a special bellhousing, but it is the Ford pattern. That housing is # 1548859 and incorporates a grease line for the clutch release bearing (throwout bearing). =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-==- The bell housing you have is for the four speed that came out in '61 and the first part of '62. These are the GM bolt pattern. The number on the housing is a casting number. The correct part number is 1552737. If you measure across the top bolt holes, yours will be about 8 1/4". The bottom holes will be about 9 1/4" and the top holes to bottom holes will be about 4 3/4". The later '62, '63, and '64's with both the three and four speeds will be about 5 1/4" across the top and 6 1/4" across the bottom and 7 1/4" top to bottom. They have a casting number 1539082 and part number is 1539373 I think. Ted -=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The tranny part #'s are -- 1552756 61V, first 200 62V (27 tooth main drive pinion) (Chevy style) 1555423 after first 200 62V (25 tooth main drive pinion) (Ford style) 1557162 63V, 64V ex Y1, ex 3.07/4.55 (2.54 1st) 1560567 63V, 64V ex Y1, ex 3.07/4.55 (2.20 1st) 1558219 63V, 64V ex Y1, w/3.07 (2.54 1st) 1560569 63V, 64V ex Y1, w/3.07 (2.20 1st) 1557374 63V, 64V ex Y1, w/4.55 (2.54 1st) 1560568 63V, 64V ex Y1, w/4.55 (2.20 1st) Main drive pinion part #'s are -- 1553088 61-62V (2.20 1st) 1555475 62-64V (2.54 1st) Cluster gear part #'s are -- 1553083 61-62V (2.20 1st) 1555476 62V (2.54 1st) 1560015 63V-64V (2.54 1st) And finally, the ratios are -- Close Wide 2.20 2.54 1.68 1.91 1.30 1.51 1.0 1.0 As you can see the close ratio box has a much better spacing. However I think I only ever had maybe one or two of those come in for service on an original Hawk. I do recall one customer had retrofitted the Chevy style box on an Avanti. Jim McClenn up there at the Bakertown Garage had a couple of used Chevy pattern units for sale, but that was some time ago. ---------- That would be almost correct. All 61's and 62's use the same transmission case. The change in 62 was the gear ratios but not the case. I have a May build 62 with wide ratio gears and Chevy style case. Case part# for 61 & 62 was 1553062. 63 & 64 except Y-1 was 1557393. ---------- Yes I saw that in the parts book, but assumed the Chevy style case was only used for those first 200 cars. The parts book didn't quite make that clear. And as I said I have almost no personal experience with those '61-'62 4 speeds. I only ever had but one or two in for service. Even by '67 or '68 most of the '61/'62's in the Detroit area had been scrapped due to rust. The only '62 Hawks I handled had auto tranny's AFAIR. Come to think of it, I don't think I ever serviced an Avanti with the close ratio box, they were all wide ratio AFAIR. I personally own/owned a '63 Hawk, '63 Avanti, and a '63 Wagonaire with the 4 sp. and they were all the wide ratio box. ----------------- T10 in Stude Avanti-/ Hawk If you want to spend the $$$ you can get a Super T 10 with a 2.43 first, 1.61 second, and 1.23 third. If you shift at 6000, this would give you a drop to 3495 going to second, 4580 going to third and 4875 going to fourth. You would need to get the '61 Chevie bell housing bolt pattern and make another bearing for the input shaft since the GM is shorter and smaller. Ted ----------------- ====== SHIFTER - According to the online Hurst catalog. The part # for the Stude is 391 7308 with the installation kit # being 373 4734. ----------- or 1963 Full size Chevy (Biscayne, Impala). Also the instalation kit for same... Toss the Stude shifter- Keep the handle, Cut it off at the "square hole" and weld it to the Hurst just above the upper of the 2-mounting holes. Note- the top of the Hurst comes VERY close to the hole in the rubber boot. It will tear it eventually (guess it took 40K miles for mine to start) Ray ========== Oct 2007 (AAS) ////four speed driveshaft slip yoke for a 63 four speed lark////// a Powerglide slip yoke uses the same spline but different U-joints (maybe Mechanic's type? not sure) but is slightly shorter than the stock Stude slip yoke. I have one of those laying around. nate