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Thread: Retrofitting a later swinging pedal assembly on an early Lark?

  1. #1
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    Retrofitting a later swinging pedal assembly on an early Lark?

    OK, this one seems like a question for Alan, but I am sure there are a host
    of people that have either done this, or looked into it. I recently have been
    assisting a virgin Studebaker owner get the ball rolling on his 1960 Lark VI.
    It has a Chevy 350 with a (as I happened to notice) TH700R4 (which could
    have been installed better). The car still has the tiny VI brakes and that is
    one area we are going to improve on. I have most of the parts left from
    the original Mustang GT brakes that donned the Avanti before upgrading to
    the massive 13" Cobra dual piston caliper brakes. Since I know the power
    setup on the Avanti worked well, I figured it was best for him to adapt the
    later swinging pedal assembly, booster, and dual master.

    I ASSUME a swap would be pretty straight forward, Studebaker historically
    did not have much money, and most running changes were done with little
    or no changes to existing parts......

    So, whats involved? Is this a non-starter, or a easy 30 minute job?

    Tom
    \'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13\" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17\" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, \'R3\' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

  2. #2
    The late Lark pedal assembly depends on the firewall, dash and steering column for support. In a 60 Lark all 3 of these are in a slightly different place/ the angle of them is different. I do not think it is a terrible situation, and can probably be done. I'd say use your angle finder and take measurements and you'll see what is involved. A 63 parts car or parts from it (including the fire wall support) would come in very handy. Original stude disc brakes need the late spindles.

  3. #3
    Senior Member N8N's Avatar
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    If the car currently does not have power brakes, I'd be tempted to simply do a dual master cylinder conversion using Jim Turner's bracket and being done with it. I really like the solid pedal feel you get from a frame mounted master cylinder. Unless the owner of the car is of limited physical strength, the manual brakes may be perfectly adequate and I far prefer the feel of good manual brakes to any power assisted setup that I have ever driven. I don't have any experience with manual discs on a Stude, but I do know that people have reported finding the Turner discs to work well without power assist, so your Ford brakes may also work equally well, assuming that the rotor size is the same or larger and the caliper piston size is comparable.

    nate
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  4. #4
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    The Lark firewall was redesigned for the 1961 model in conjunction with the swing pedals.
    I have owned Studebakers that were converted from the floor M/C to a firewall mount dual M/C system. They worked well. I did not do the conversions so I do not know how much was involved with the conversion.
    I would just convert that Lark to V8 brakes and make sure that the whole system is in good shape.
    Gary L.
    Wappinger, NY

    SDC member since 1968
    Studebaker enthusiast much longer

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    Quote Originally Posted by (S) View Post
    Original stude disc brakes need the late spindles.
    Funny you mention that, I was going to post above that I installed Stude discs on a
    '60 Hawk and didnt need the later spindles. The back of the early spindles has each
    hole counterbored and the stock disc brake bracket has bosses that fit into them. I
    just bolted them on at the time, it wasnt until many years later I was told that I was
    not able to do it. They say a hummingbird shouldnt be able to fly, but no one told it.

    Quote Originally Posted by N8N View Post
    If the car currently does not have power brakes, I'd be tempted to simply do a dual master cylinder conversion using Jim Turner's bracket and being done with it. I really like the solid pedal feel you get from a frame mounted master cylinder. Unless the owner of the car is of limited physical strength, the manual brakes may be perfectly adequate and I far prefer the feel of good manual brakes to any power assisted setup that I have ever driven. I don't have any experience with manual discs on a Stude, but I do know that people have reported finding the Turner discs to work well without power assist, so your Ford brakes may also work equally well, assuming that the rotor size is the same or larger and the caliper piston size is comparable.
    nate
    It might work without assist, I really do not know. I know that you can not use
    manual discs with a swinging pedal, but I ran manual discs on my Hawk for a
    while. I figured that we could put together a swinging pedal setup on the car
    to match the Avantis setup if the swinging pedal bolts in easy enough. The fall
    back plan is to go with the Turner under-the-floor dual.

    I told him I wont sell him the setup unless he installs a dual master. Not after
    what I experienced when a rebuilt rear wheel cylinder failed on my Hawk on
    a freeway offramp. Bad time to find the parking brake was mis-adjusted ....

    The GT caliper has a much larger piston, which would effect non-power use
    and has a much larger pad. I would have to do some research to see how it
    would help or hinder.

    Tom

  6. #6
    Senior Member N8N's Avatar
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    larger piston should make the pedal effort go down at the expense of a longer pedal stroke. Pad size isn't really relevant to pedal effort vs. brake torque.

    nate
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  7. #7
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    Tom,
    (quote) "I know that you can not use manual discs with a swinging pedal,"

    Why do you say that? In my "opinion" you are wrong, because: the pedal ratio is different in a maual vs power brake pedal. There is also a sleeve that you can insert into the M/C so you do not have the lonw pedal as N8N described. The adjustment between the pedal and the M/C is critical. I had a 62 Daytona convertible, that had my discs on the front, and a dual NON power M/C on the firewall. The car stopped just fine.
    There are no engineering facts that support what you posted. Pedal pressure is determined by both the bore of the M/C, pedal ratio, and the size of the rear wheel cylinders (or calipers)

    Jim

    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by 52 Ragtop View Post
    There are no engineering facts that support what you posted. Pedal pressure is determined by both the bore of the M/C, pedal ratio, and the size of the rear wheel cylinders (or calipers)
    Jim
    1960 Hawk, a four wheel drum car, installed Stude discs front, the matching rear
    drum assembly for disc car, obviously no booster, stopped fine, no issues in quite
    a few thousand miles of use.

    1964 Lark Daytona, a four wheel drum car, installed Stude discs front, the matching
    rear drum assembly for disc car, no booster .. pedal was hard as a rock, could not
    get it to stop worth a damn. Added a booster from a Jeep, stopped on a dime.

    Perhaps no "engineering facts" .. just the experience of attempting it. This was a
    number of years ago, I remember being dumbfounded when the Lark was so hard
    to stop : since I had run the setup on my Hawk for a while without any problems.

    What rear brakes did you have on the Lark? Were they the stock drums? Did you
    use a proportioning valve or were you simply stopping with the rear drums? I see
    from your profile that you are Jim Turner, so perhaps the caliper that you use for
    your front setup requires considerably less pedal pressure than the original dual
    piston Stude caliper. I was refering to stock stude vs stock stude, not your setup
    or mine. I have not attempted to use my setup without power assist, simply due
    to the fact my Avanti had a booster.

    Tom

  9. #9
    Senior Member Kurt's Avatar
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    Why couldn't swing pedals from a Champ pick up be used??

    66 Commander R1 Clone

    51 Commander 4 door

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
    Why couldn't swing pedals from a Champ pick up be used??
    Thats an interesting idea, but how does the Champ differ? My dad used to
    have one, but I never needed to work up under the dash. He got an assembly
    already, not sure from what model, but they even torched out a section of the
    firewall with the bolt pattern / reinforcement plate. I met him at a car show
    and checked out his loot. He got the pedal, bushings, plate and large stamped
    bracket that goes from the dash to the firewall the pedal bolts into, along with
    the loop for the steering column.

    Tom

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