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  1. #1
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    1963 Lark Tach? Questions...

    Hi folks,

    I was fortunate to buy the pictured tachometer at the Puyallup (Seattle area) early bird swap meet last weekend. I gladly paid the $3 asking price. I believe it's from a 1963 Jet Thrust equipped Lark based on what I've read and seen here on the forum and Bob Johnstone's website. Can you confirm that for me based on the photos?

    I've got a '63 Daytona convertible and I'd like to use this tach eventually. I only got the tach head and it needs repair so I'll have to have it fixed and put together the rest of the parts I need over time.

    One more question:

    Can anyone show me a photo or describe how the mounting bracket attaches to the tach head and to the back of the dash? I can see its shape in the photo in the factory installation instructions that 289stude posted back in 2009. Does it fit over the terminals on the back of the tach and then get attached with the nuts? Also, it looks like something I could fabricate myself if I had the dimensions. Could anybody measure theirs for me?

    Thanks for any help you can give. I haven't been an active participant on this forum but it has been a VERY valuable resource for me. I appreciate the the wisdom and information that's been shared and the time put in.

    Joe
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    Silver Hawk Member 8E45E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldJoe View Post
    I believe it's from a 1963 Jet Thrust equipped Lark based on what I've read and seen here on the forum and Bob Johnstone's website. Can you confirm that for me based on the photos?
    Indeed it is!! Nice find for that price! https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...ith-Tachometer

    Craig

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    At $3, that has to be one of the best buys ever! Yes, as Craig confirms, it is the correct tach for a JT engine equipped '63 lark. The bracket is similar to the brackets used to hold on the other gauges; a "U" shaped piece that fits over the two mounting studs on the back of the tach. To make it work, you will first need to check out the head unit (the part you have) and then purchase the sending unit - that tach would use the round "can", which housed the sending unit. These units are still available from vendors. Another option is to have it converted to more modern electronics. You will also need the mounting ring that the tach mounts in.
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    Awesome news! Thanks for the confirmation and the information fellas. That's a beautiful interior Eric.

    This has renewed my faith in swap meets! The past 3-4 years they've started to feel like a waste of time. The tach was sitting on a lonely little card table with a handful of other odds and ends and I didn't see that the vendor had any other Studebaker parts. I never expected to have one of these for my car.

    Something else to report for the people in the Puget Sound region: there was a vendor flying a "Studebaker swap meet" banner at Puyallup. He seemed to mainly have Hawk parts. I think he was pretty reasonable on prices. He also apparently has a a 1955 Speedster project. He was handing out his phone number on slips of paper but I don't know if it's Kosher to put it out on the Forum. I'd be glad to share it if somebody wants it.

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    President Member studebaker-R2-4-me's Avatar
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    I don't think you will have to fabricate the bracket. I believe the GT Hawks tachometers are the same size and almost every GT Hawk had a tachometer, brackets are in the thousands. The key thing about the bracket is that there are insulators within the bracket for the two leads that mount to the bracket.

    You have a great find at a stand out price. How do you know it does not work? To test the tach head use a 1.5V "D" size battery across the terminals. That voltage will not "pin" the needle. Make sure that you check which is the positive lead to the tach head. You don't want to pin the needle the wrong way.

    If it does not work, you are left with taking it apart. It is actually a simple electrical device with an electromagnet that travels along a curved iron core. Often you will find a miss alignment of the iron core to the electromagnet which causes it to bind. Adjust a big screw holding the iron core and it will free up the electromagnet.

    I am presently repairing a 64 Lark Tachometer for a freind that has a damaged face. It did not work at all and now does. I am in the process of having a new face printed for 64 tach's.

    Here is a before and after pictures of 1963 Lark tach I bought off Ebay a few years ago that I took apart and repaired. It now resides in my 1963 Lark Convertible.


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    Allen

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    Quote Originally Posted by studebaker-R2-4-me View Post
    I don't think you will have to fabricate the bracket. I believe the GT Hawks tachometers are the same size and almost every GT Hawk had a tachometer, brackets are in the thousands. The key thing about the bracket is that there are insulators within the bracket for the two leads that mount to the bracket.

    You have a great find at a stand out price. How do you know it does not work? To test the tach head use a 1.5V "D" size battery across the terminals. That voltage will not "pin" the needle. Make sure that you check which is the positive lead to the tach head. You don't want to pin the needle the wrong way.

    If it does not work, you are left with taking it apart. It is actually a simple electrical device with an electromagnet that travels along a curved iron core. Often you will find a miss alignment of the iron core to the electromagnet which causes it to bind. Adjust a big screw holding the iron core and it will free up the electromagnet.

    I am presently repairing a 64 Lark Tachometer for a freind that has a damaged face. It did not work at all and now does. I am in the process of having a new face printed for 64 tach's.

    Here is a before and after pictures of 1963 Lark tach I bought off Ebay a few years ago that I took apart and repaired. It now resides in my 1963 Lark Convertible.


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    Allen
    Doesn't the tach and speedo needles look 'Too Orange' as compared to the factory color on the secondary instruments

  7. #7
    President Member studebaker-R2-4-me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SN-60 View Post
    Doesn't the tach and speedo needles look 'Too Orange' as compared to the factory color on the secondary instruments
    Your constant negative and narcissitstic behaviour on this forum I find exhausting.

    Allen

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    Quote Originally Posted by studebaker-R2-4-me View Post
    Your constant negative and narcissitstic behaviour on this forum I find exhausting.

    Allen
    If Your really exhausted from all of this....You should probably consider getting more exercise

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    Did they really use the same tach in the hawks and larks? I thought the larks had a different face, might be wrong as I have been in the past.

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    That was a legitimate question ,it looks too orange.

    Robert Kapteyn

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    Quote Originally Posted by candbstudebakers View Post
    Did they really use the same tach in the hawks and larks? I thought the larks had a different face, might be wrong as I have been in the past.
    I believe You are correct...Basically the same tach head.....With a different face plate.

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    The Hawk tachometers are the same but the pointers are different.
    You can install a Lark speedometer needle on a Hawk tach!
    Most round can senders have electronic problems and John Shanahan wrote a how to fix article.
    I will try to find it.
    Ray Lin has some wiring info for the Hawk.
    https://www.raylinrestoration.com/Tec...es/GTTachs.htm

    Robert Kapteyn

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    A lot of questions like that are covered in Jet Trust news.

    https://www.studebaker-info.org/JTN/JTNEWS/jtn13.htm

    and do a search on Bob Johnstone pages.

    https://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx4.html#Tachometer

    Robert Kapteyn
    Last edited by rkapteyn; 02-22-2014 at 01:01 PM.

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    This is all great information. Thank you. Allen I tested the tach head with a battery after reading Robert McDonald's article from the January 1980 Turning Wheels, found on Bob Johnstone's website and got no reponse from the tach needle at all. That's why I concluded it needs repair. My multi-meter also shows an open circuit so I think something is schnitzled inside the tach. I'll open it up and take a look. I do prefer to fix things myself if possible. I will look for a GT Hawk bracket. Your gauge restoration looks great!

    I think I'll need a rectangular Hawk sending unit as well. My car has a humble 259 with a old style Delco single-points distributor. After studying the parts book and the Forum it looks like the Jet Thrust cars had the round sender. I'm assuming that they are designed to work with the dual point distributor on the Jet Thrust engines. Does that sound right?

    Quote Originally Posted by studebaker-R2-4-me View Post
    I don't think you will have to fabricate the bracket. I believe the GT Hawks tachometers are the same size and almost every GT Hawk had a tachometer, brackets are in the thousands. The key thing about the bracket is that there are insulators within the bracket for the two leads that mount to the bracket.

    You have a great find at a stand out price. How do you know it does not work? To test the tach head use a 1.5V "D" size battery across the terminals. That voltage will not "pin" the needle. Make sure that you check which is the positive lead to the tach head. You don't want to pin the needle the wrong way.

    If it does not work, you are left with taking it apart. It is actually a simple electrical device with an electromagnet that travels along a curved iron core. Often you will find a miss alignment of the iron core to the electromagnet which causes it to bind. Adjust a big screw holding the iron core and it will free up the electromagnet.

    I am presently repairing a 64 Lark Tachometer for a freind that has a damaged face. It did not work at all and now does. I am in the process of having a new face printed for 64 tach's.

    Here is a before and after pictures of 1963 Lark tach I bought off Ebay a few years ago that I took apart and repaired. It now resides in my 1963 Lark Convertible.


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    Allen
    Quote Originally Posted by rkapteyn View Post
    The Hawk tachometers are the same but the pointers are different.
    You can install a Lark speedometer needle on a Hawk tach!
    Most round can senders have electronic problems and John Shanahan wrote a how to fix article.
    I will try to find it.
    Ray Lin has some wiring info for the Hawk.
    https://www.raylinrestoration.com/Tec...es/GTTachs.htm

    Robert Kapteyn
    Quote Originally Posted by rkapteyn View Post
    A lot of questions like that are covered in Jet Trust news.

    https://www.studebaker-info.org/JTN/JTNEWS/jtn13.htm

    and do a search on Bob Johnstone pages.

    https://www.studebaker-info.org/rjtechx4.html#Tachometer

    Robert Kapteyn
    Quote Originally Posted by rkapteyn View Post

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    Cool

    Here's a NOS tach head. The needle is a hair more red than orange, but if you leave in the sun it will turn orange in a hurry like every 63-66 speedometer that has been installed in a car.

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    So what's my point? (Pun intended) There is no point about which shade of orange the needle is supposed be because once it sees the sun it will be faded orange.

    Further more, it won't matter once Allen puts a 1" x 2" (25.4 mm x 50.8 mm for you Canadians, Eh) sticker on the face of his tach stating that it has been restored.

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    Hard to believe that's a NOS tach head!...As far as the correct color for the needles..I agree with You that red has a tendency to fade out if left in sunlight....My point was that it becomes even more obvious when the needle colors don't match each other 'Across The Board'. Perhaps Allen hasn't gotten to the secondary instruments in His Lark as yet?

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    Allen you did a beautiful job. How did you restore the face plate? I have two used ones with low miles and they do not match my two nos gauges. Also i have not been able to buy an nos one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldJoe View Post
    This is all great information. Thank you. Allen I tested the tach head with a battery after reading Robert McDonald's article from the January 1980 Turning Wheels, found on Bob Johnstone's website and got no reponse from the tach needle at all. That's why I concluded it needs repair. My multi-meter also shows an open circuit so I think something is schnitzled inside the tach. I'll open it up and take a look. I do prefer to fix things myself if possible. I will look for a GT Hawk bracket. Your gauge restoration looks great!

    I think I'll need a rectangular Hawk sending unit as well. My car has a humble 259 with a old style Delco single-points distributor. After studying the parts book and the Forum it looks like the Jet Thrust cars had the round sender. I'm assuming that they are designed to work with the dual point distributor on the Jet Thrust engines. Does that sound right?
    I have a retangular sending unit for sale and guaranteed to work. You're right the round sending units are for dual point distributors although the rectangualar sending units work with both distributors. I believe you will find with a dual point distributor and a rectangualar sending unit the tachometer needle will bounce more.

    There is not much to go wrong in a tachometer. Here's a picture of a 1964 sending unit outside the can:

    The voltages and resistances are so small I doubt your meter could read an open circuit. (I just put my Fluke multimeter on this tach head and it reads open as well)

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    Iron Core Ring

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    This is the electromagnet that rotates around the Iron Core Ring and moves the needle.

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    This screw holds the Iron Core Ring in place to enable the electromagnet rotate on the ring. The adjustment is fine, one way or the other and the electromagnet will bind. I would bet my bottom dollar that the tachometer you purchased has been thrown around in a box for years and has bumped the ring out of alignment causing it to bind on the ring.


    Joe, I hope posting these pictures will provide you the confidence to open the gauge and see if the electromagnet is binding.


    Quote Originally Posted by 61Lark View Post
    Further more, it won't matter once Allen puts a 1" x 2" (25.4 mm x 50.8 mm for you Canadians, Eh) sticker on the face of his tach stating that it has been restored.
    That would be known as the "over-restored" look to people who seem to think that only their opinions matter over the vast majority. (one of many narcissitstic traits)

    As for the color of my guage needles; light, shadow, time of day, camera flash, lack of camera flash, and even the make of your computer screen will cause a wide variance in color. Furthermore all of the gauges in my 1963 dash have the same "over-restored" fluorescent paint on them for a look of continuity between all three gauges.


    Allen
    Last edited by studebaker-R2-4-me; 02-22-2014 at 05:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 58PackardWagon View Post
    Allen you did a beautiful job. How did you restore the face plate? I have two used ones with low miles and they do not match my two nos gauges. Also i have not been able to buy an nos one.

    I simply washed it very lightly with mild kitchen dish soap and many Q-tips. It's hard to believe how much atmospheric soil gets into these gauges.

    I did the same with a 1964 tach face and the paint came off. I believe the paint is much different between 1963 and 1964 whereas the 1964 is really really thin. Hence why I am now in the process of reproducing the 1964 tach face. I had my step son photoshop the image and now found a print shop to print me off a sheet of tachometer faces.


    Allen

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    Hey Big Al,

    Your tach looks great! Too orange or not, it will soon fade a bit anyway.

    Will you be accompanying us at South Bend for the May meet?

    Fast Eddie and company will be doing the barbecue again this year at our favorite hotel......get a room if you have not already as they are going fast. I want to start a raffle to help pay for the Barbeque (That Eddie and his wife graciously paid for last year and plan too again this year).

    Its gonna be our mini nationals for sure.

    Tom

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    Again, excellent work. Thanks for sharing

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    Quote Originally Posted by R3studee View Post
    Hey Big Al,

    Your tach looks great! Too orange or not, it will soon fade a bit anyway.

    Will you be accompanying us at South Bend for the May meet?

    Fast Eddie and company will be doing the barbecue again this year at our favorite hotel......get a room if you have not already as they are going fast. I want to start a raffle to help pay for the Barbeque (That Eddie and his wife graciously paid for last year and plan too again this year).

    Its gonna be our mini nationals for sure.

    Tom
    Hey Tom,

    Lurking again huh? That's the guts of your '64 tach pictured there! I'd like to get this tachometer back together again real soon. I still have to get the "green-gun metal blue" paint matched for the trim ring, then have the gauge face printed. I found a guy to do the job and is a car guy. He told me it is a losing proposition of a printing job, but if it is for a old car he would do it. On the other hand my buddy is a machinist and asked him if he could reproduce the gauge face in another piece of aluminum, so that you could have the original back and I could mount the decal on a new one. The tach face has a lip on the it to contain the inner bezel, so that is what is holding me up. I really don't want to put a decal on the 64 tach face out of this gauge. Maybe it would be easier to get a totally bad hawk gauge face and media blast it clean to stick the decal on. Have you got a bad 62-64 Hawk tach to sacrifice?

    Any one have a scrap Hawk tach that has been taken apart and is in pieces?

    Not to sure what South Bend looks like for us right now. I would like to make it to South Bend this spring, and would even take our little Lark on it's first road trip to the "mini nationals" since re-newing the powertrain. It would be a great break in for the engine.

    We are in flux with our careers at this time so who really knows where we will wind up. If we do come I will make a point of having this 64 gauge completed to give back to you.

    Allen

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    Oldjoe, you forgot to do the absolute most important thing.....ask the vendor where he got it. That is a significant item that used to reside in a Avanti powered Lark. The car may still exist; maybe he plucked it out of a junkyard car. Who knows. Clues like this don't come up too often. All in all, a great find!

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    Does anyone know a good place to have an Avanti tach converted to modern internals so that you don't have to use the sending unit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StudeMichael View Post
    Does anyone know a good place to have an Avanti tach converted to modern internals so that you don't have to use the sending unit?
    Dave Thibeault told Me He could get that done if someone wanted.

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    Allen prior to cleaning it, did you remove the face plate from the tach or did you clean it while still in the unit itself. Also if you did remove it, did you soak it in the soap and water for a little bit? Thanks

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    All this talk about this small size tach nothing was said about the larger special lark bezel needed to hold it in. I think SI still has some for $25.00 each.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 58PackardWagon View Post
    Allen prior to cleaning it, did you remove the face plate from the tach or did you clean it while still in the unit itself. Also if you did remove it, did you soak it in the soap and water for a little bit? Thanks
    NO. I actually took a 2.0 oz jigger, put in some mild dishwashing soap and mixred in some water - a good squirt of soap and fill the jigger. I used lots of Q-tips with the water/soap mixture dipping the Q-tip in the mixture and gently wiping the tach face. I kept the tach head to the tach face. I did not want to chance the paint from cracking on the tach face. Leave it all together. I may have left it in the can as well to save from man handling it.

    As soon as I saw dirt on the Q-tip, I flipped to the other side, always noting the colour of the Q-tip. I probably used 20 Q-tips lightly passing over the Tach face. As cleaning a section I would use fresh water on another Q-tip and rinse then dry it with another. Q-tips are cheap and really good at cleaning.

    Always note what is coming off the tach face, Questioning the swipes - is that dirt or PAINT. Take your time. the white tach lines and numbers get whiter and you will get a really nice tach.

    Allen

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    Quote Originally Posted by candbstudebakers View Post
    All this talk about this small size tach nothing was said about the larger special lark bezel needed to hold it in. I think SI still has some for $25.00 each.
    Yes, that is a 'key' piece....made of pot metal, original ones can sometimes be quite deteriorated.

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    That looks like the tach that was in my old '63 R1 Daytona. I don't remember the red trim, but I'll have to look at old pictures. I remember the black surround inside the lens of mine was deteriorating.

  32. #32
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    I found a series of photo of removing the bezel, cleaning the tach, and putting it back together.

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    I continue opening around the bezel leaving the last part untouched always checking if you can open it and snap it back together

    Continued on next post.

    Allen
    Last edited by studebaker-R2-4-me; 02-23-2014 at 10:40 AM.

  33. #33
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    Here's some more.

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    Bezels are media blasted and paint black. I did not take pictures of turning over the trim ring but I use a small roll pin punch with the tach placed on a towel or soft surface. When I painted the needle I used a peice of paper with a slit cut in it to slip over the entire face under the needle taping off the round aluminum pointer. Good luck with re-furbishing your tach.

    Allen
    Last edited by studebaker-R2-4-me; 02-23-2014 at 11:04 AM.

  34. #34
    President Member bezhawk's Avatar
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    You can roll the bezel back in place with a curved piece of steel. Banging on them with a punch is not too good for the internals!Click image for larger version. 

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  35. #35
    President Member studebaker-R2-4-me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bezhawk View Post
    You can roll the bezel back in place with a curved piece of steel.

    Brad,

    I have seen your gauge conversions and have wondered how you do roll back the bezel with a curved piece of steel? I hate to tap the bezel when i do this.

    I have a few GT Hawk gauges that I want to clean up as well and would really like to see how you do this along with Tom's 1964 tach.

    Can you teach us with a pictorial sequence?


    Allen

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    Quote Originally Posted by studebaker-R2-4-me View Post
    Brad,

    I have seen your gauge conversions and have wondered how you do roll back the bezel with a curved piece of steel? I hate to tap the bezel when i do this.

    I have a few GT Hawk gauges that I want to clean up as well and would really like to see how you do this along with Tom's 1964 tach.

    Can you teach us with a pictorial sequence?


    Allen
    You should NEVER 'tap' on the bezel! Simply compressing it with a thin block of hard wood using steady hand pressure will do the trick!

  37. #37
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    Getting the rolled edge started for removal is a nightmare. Any tricks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 58PackardWagon View Post
    Getting the rolled edge started for removal is a nightmare. Any tricks?
    Have patience, and open it a little bit at a time working Your way around the circumference of the gauge. A quality cotter pin removal tool, such as My 'Snap-On' one, sometimes works well.

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    Got it. On e i got it started, it went well. Time wise i had two hours into the tach and two hours into thw 160 mph speedo. Tach numbers are a slightly brighter white than the speedo but both look close to new and are 50 times better than when i started. Red / orange paint was tough to match an nos cluster. I mixed 5 drops of red with 1 drop of yellow, mixed thin and it looks perfect. Thanks to all.
    Last edited by 58PackardWagon; 02-23-2014 at 05:49 PM.

  40. #40
    President Member studebaker-R2-4-me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 58PackardWagon View Post
    Got it. On e i got it started, it went well. Time wise i had two hours into the tach and two hours into thw 160 mph speedo. Tach numbers are a slightly brighter white than thespeedo but both look close to new and are 50you times better than when i started. Red / orange paint was tough to match an nos cluster. I mixed 5 drops of red with 1 drop of yellow, mixed thin and it looks perfect. Thanks to all.

    How about a picture(s)?

    Allen

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