Just to add to the discussion, last September my good friend David = Hauser (President of the North Carolina SDC chapter) was running his = immaculate 63 R-1 (Ist place 1995 SDC International at Dearborn) at the = East Coast Speed trials, on an airport runway. At about 115 mph he heard = a funny noise and looked in the rear view mirror just in time to see his = back glass floating in midair, then settle majestically on the runway = and shatter into a million pieces. Now, my 64 came with all those extra = clips from the factory to keep things in palce...has anyone ever heard = of this happening on a 64 or later? Russ ------------------- This was a common problem on early Avantis. Studebaker updated the rear window several times before getting the window not to suck out at high speeds. I remember hearing of a magazine article where this happened and the window smashed the front-end of the new Corvette it was racing. I would like to have that magazine for my collection. Anyone else know which one it was? Denny -------------------- This fall, I posted about the fact that the factory learned early that the back windows would pop out at high speeds. I also spoke about the father of one of my customers being an Studebaker Avanti line worker responsible for setting the rear glass in the bodies. My customer told me that after the tolerances were tightened in response to the problem, the backglasses became a real problem for the Avanti line. They were so tight it was hard to get them set, even following engineering's guidelines. The production people came up with a crude solution that did work in 3 out of 5 or so assemblies. They built a catwalk above the assembly line and stationed a guy up there with a large rubber mallet. Two men would position the glass, then the top guy would swing the mallet. 60% or so were then set. the other 40% or so were shattered. The lost materials were evidently sacrificed for time savings. I believe the blow out problem only occured on early '63's. '64's and all II's were not affected to the best of my knowledge. The part of the story that I didn't tell was that five minuites after leaving my customer's office after hearing this story, I spotted my '63 R4466 for sale. I took the story as an omen and later that evening closed a deal for my own '63 Avanti. After 20 years with only one Stude, it was time for #2! -------------------- David Levesque, Russel Farris, and all Avanti owners and drivers. As the owner and restorer of R3922 who has though my own ignorance and pleasure, driven my baby over 115 MPH on serveral occasions with out losing my rear window, I am thankful that I have had only experienced excitement. One of my ex-wives( that is another story) and I, removed and reinstalled the window, and yes there is only a small nut and bolt holding the window in. So maybe we need to check to see what model is subject to the problem, or not drive our Avanti's over 115MPH. :) :) :) don hedgepeth ----------------- n 1985, just after I bought my 63 Avanti(RQ2603), I was a little younger and dumber. A friend of mine and I had my Avanti to 130mph, by the speedometer, on a dual lane hiway here in Indiana........moral......window didn't pop out. Later, when I finally read of this problem, I felt lucky to still have it intact. I had someone, can't recall who, put a new seal on the window in about 1991....I would not try the 130 again. ----------------- n Dec. 85, I sold a 63 Avanti to a friend of mine, that lives in Rockford Ill. (I lived in L.A. at the time) Kevin and his wife flew to LA and drove the car home. After he got home he called me, and said as they were going north on US 51 in Ill. a truck went by, a car, then another truck, and whoosh! the back window got sucked out. He turned around to get the w/strip and mldgs, and found the back glass in one piece! picked it up, put it in through the rear window opening, and drove the rest of the way home! After that I asked the glass guy who put in the w/strip about it, and he said it went in real tight, he didn't think it needed any urethane. (he now uses urethane on all Avanti's he does) Hard to believe the glass did not break, I know, as I didn't have to get one! Jim ---------------- As I understand it the windows are sucked out, not blown out as if pushed out by air coming in from open windows. It's the same effect that makes race cars stick to the ground and airplanes fly. ------------------- Just received my February issue of HOT ROD magazine,on page 107 there is an interesting picture of an AVANTI with the rear window blown out! The article say the owner, Ed Stachowiak, was doing double the speed limit on I-287 in New York, when it happened, neat picture. I hope this is not a common problem, and probably as expensive as a ticket. ---------------------------------------- I do remember reading in the 1970's that a Studebaker Avanti's rear window will blow out at speeds over 130 or so. I don't remember the source, but it seemed to be considered a "known fact" . I don't usually put stock in just any old "known fact", but I also remember that there were mag articles stating that Molded Fiberglass Co made mistakes on the forms for the early bodies such that some rear windows actually fell through the openings on the assembly line. That could possibly be a common weakness on certain Avantis that is very rarely tested. ------------------------------------------ known fact. stude engineers (ed reynolds sr) confirmed it, adn in fact they modified the fastenings four times from R1001 thru R5621. Still not perfect, but they stopped there. frank R5421 ------------------------------------------ <> Would this be with the side wiindows open, or did that matter? Jim ------------------------------------------ ust looked at the Feb Hot Rod with the blown out Avanti rear window. Page 107. the car is that yellow hot rod that John Poulos posted some pics of at http://hitechelectronics.com/yellow.htm It looks a lot better with the glass in. The article says that they found a replacement right away! (but it doesn't say how). Kim Miller ------------------------------------- In light of recent discussion of Avanti rear glass problems I found it interesting to see what has been posted on the Chrysler NG (rec.autos.makers.chrysler): "Well, the rear window in our Caravan EXPLODED! My wife thought she was being shot at on the highway. Seems like there's a lot of missing rear windows due to 'explosions' in our area, according to the auto glass shops, lots of demand for replacement rear windows." The above was in response to the following post: My parents have a '99 300M and the rear glass shattered while in their garage overnight. The car was in their unheated, but fully-enclosed garage overnight. Theylive in Wisconsin and the overnight temperature was -5F (cold, but not extreme). Around mid-day today they went to start the car (temp now about +10F) and the rear glass was intact, but _completely_ shattered and had "bubbled up". They characterized it as how plastic looks when it melts and bubbles. After taking pictures, they open the garage door and then the glass fell through into the car due either to wind or sudden change in temperature. Dealer claims never to have heard of anything like this happening. Anyone else have anything like this happen with the 300M or any other Chrysler vehicle?" The first Avanti I ever saw with a blown rear glass was in the summer of '64- car was sitting at a motel in Dodge City, KS. I guess a cross-country traveler decided to "try it out" on the plains (Kansas speed limit then was "reasonable and prudent for conditions"). I never had my fairly early '63 R-2 over 100 and and I guess the factory fix worked because my '66 rear glass was ok at 120. Paul Johnson --------------------------------------------- It sometimes happens with tempered glass parts. Tempered glass is "heat treated" in a process which rearranges the molecular structure of the glass so that when it breaks, it breaks into chunks which are not sharp and are small enough not to do great bodily damage by themselves. Unfortunately, the tensile strength of the glass is greatly reduced by this process also. Just about all backglasses and side glasses are tempered today, while the windshields are just about all laminated safety glass. This means that any stress put on a tempered part by quick temperature changes, or a misaligned regulator, or the glass edge being too close to metal in a fixed installation may cause it to shatter or "explode". There has to be at least one guy in the group that can attest to the inability of tempered glass to bend a great amount. Leaning over the top of a door glass is a good way to do it. My brother bought a new GMC Sonoma a few years back and after picking it up with less than 100 miles on it, the door glass exploded in the garage. The regulator had the glass in a bind. ------------------------------------- It sometimes happens with tempered glass parts. Tempered glass is "heat treated" in a process which rearranges the molecular structure of the glass so that when it breaks, it breaks into chunks which are not sharp and are small enough not to do great bodily damage by themselves. Unfortunately, the tensile strength of the glass is greatly reduced by this process also. Just about all backglasses and side glasses are tempered today, while the windshields are just about all laminated safety glass. This means that any stress put on a tempered part by quick temperature changes, or a misaligned regulator, or the glass edge being too close to metal in a fixed installation may cause it to shatter or "explode". There has to be at least one guy in the group that can attest to the inability of tempered glass to bend a great amount. Leaning over the top of a door glass is a good way to do it. My brother bought a new GMC Sonoma a few years back and after picking it up with less than 100 miles on it, the door glass exploded in the garage. The regulator had the glass in a bind.