was doing some work under my '64 today and noticed a big chunk of rubber hanging down from one of the control arm bushings. Taking a look at the others, they are all cracked or soft. What affect does this have? Is it serious enough that I shouldn't drive the car much until I get them fixed? Scott Isensee ------------------------------------------ I've seen the rubber splitting on not-so-old bushings. Sometimes a mechanic will tighten up everything while the car is on the lift. When the car is put back on it's own weight and the a-frames move to the natural ride-height some bushings will tear in just a few miles. The best way to install is to tighten up everything BUT the rubber bushings on the lift. Then tighten the bolts for the bushings only after the cars weight is back on the tires. That way the bushings aren't forced to rotate past the tearing point before the car even moves. Even with the extra care sometimes the rubber cracks sooner than expected anyway. For me, if I know the rubber is not too old and the rubber keeps the suspension shaft centered in the hole and if there is enough rubber to keep the "washers" separated and not able to contact metal or move around, then I keep driving. If the rubber looks like it is letting move around more than the factory would put up with (your guess!) then I replace. Even if you explain this to your mechanic, many if not most, will forget along the way, and just bolt things in. Later when you pick up the car and ask, he'll assure you anyway, thinking you're just too picky. The best thing to do is baby it home, crawl uder, loosen each bolt that goes in to the center of every bushing until the "washer" is loose. Bounce the car a few times to let the bushings relax, then tighten the bolts when the weight is on the tires and the car is at normal running height. This isn't a total cure, but it greatly lessens the tendency to tear the rubber. If your bushings are simply aged or too old, I would look to see if your shafts are too much offcenter. Check the inner side of the "washers" too see if there is indication of metal to metal contact. If it doesn't look like things are moving around "sloppily" or hitting metal to metal, I myself would drive it until the new parts could be installed. If there is metal-to-metal or big movemen't I would park it till parts came. If there is a different "feel" pay attention. If turning right into a parking lot is less responsive or precise than when turning left into ------ Or if there is a tendency to hunt or drift. A shimmy that comes and goes. These things can indicate bushings moving more than looks will tell, a bushing extremely soft from oil or weather, or parts that pass the prybar test but move under heavier load. I've seen the metal outer bushings "pass" even when very worn; parts pressing against each other will hide each others slop. Don't count on "grab and shake" for finding worn parts. I didn'tproofread. I hope it's easy to follow. David Levesque -------------------------------------- Agree with Dan. The best way to see if everything's okay is to drive it. If you notice "sloppy steering", and you plan on driving it a lot, change them. Dan Booth and Nostalgic has all the parts you'll need. My mechanic told me I had to replace mine in my '84 Touring Coupe. So Chuck Lampman was kind enough to help me change almost all my bushings on New Year's day in his work shop. It's work (but not rocket science) and requires a few special tools (hydraulic press, a locally made device to keep the control arm arms from bending while you're pressing out the old bushings and pressing in the new ones, a drift to relocate the lower control arms during installation, impact wrench, etc.), but it saved me over $500 in labor costs (estimated by my mechanic). (I owe Chuck BIG TIME!) My mechanic even congratulated us in putting it back together right! And yes, I didn't tighten the lower control arm inner bushing bolts all the way until the car was driven a few miles to let things settle down. If you're interested in doing it yourself, I would be glad to offer my observations (I'll even see if Chuck can help since he's the expert). Otherwise, most shops should be able to handle the job. Ken ----------------------------------------------- If you're interested in doing it yourself, I would be glad to offer my observations (I'll even see if Chuck can help since he's the expert). Otherwise, most shops should be able to handle the job. Ken, I'm interested in doing this job this spring. Please advise of your observations. You may send to me off-line if you want, but this may be interest to others in the group. thanks... Ron Maracle R63 1498 ----------------------------------------- I thought there someone had made polyurethane bushings to replace the rubber ones in the Studebaker frame. Someone suggested to me that I find a pair of 50 lower control arms because they had solid bushings all around. My bushings are starting to fade on my car and this is something that would interest me also. I would think that machining some delrin bushings and some custom outer sleeves that were thick enough to hold a grease fitting would be the ultimate solution. Given the amount of oil underneath many of our cars I don't think that rubber bushings would last very long. David ------------------------------------------ Greetings: How about an "How To" article for the magazine? The suspension system is something many of us would like more information on. I believe it is also a focus for the AOAI International Meet this year. Could be a nice tie in between the magazine and the Meet. Thanks, Tim ----------------------------------------- Beware of concluding that "sloppy steering" is the fault of the control arm bushings. Before investing in this amount of expense, determine the health of the bushings by removing all spring tension from the front suspension (take the spring out, typically) and wriggle the control arms themselves. Bushings you know have been in place for many tens of thousands of miles should probably be replaced out of hand, but bushings of unknown age or use should probably be checked for tightness first before assuming they need to be swapped. Chris ------------------------------------------ Delrin bushings have been around a while- I machined a set a few years back for a 64 R-2 Challenger race car that friend Dan Miller runs at Road Atlanta in the Walter Mitty every year, and another set for the 63 Avanti I've been working on for too long. They vastly improve cornering if you're doing the kind of cornering that a race car does, because they keep the front-end geometry consistant even with high lateral G forces, but they also transmit every little bump in the road to the frame of the car and to the driver's butt! I haven't got mine on the road yet, but Dan tells me his race car rides so roughly that he'd never consider Delrin bushings for a daily driver- you'd get all the bumpiness and very little of the benefits in that environment. Regards, Chuck -------------------------------------- I run Delrin bushings on the front of my GT Hawk and would not recommend using them on the street. The ride is noticeably harsher and the extra 8 grease fittings are inconvenient to reach. Considering the mileage put on the car each year, their longer lifespan will have them lasting well beyond MY lifespan. They are still available, at $125 for eight, and are not difficult to install. Fred Gooch used to sell them, I believe, and I think Chuck Collins, SDC Arizona, sells them now. Chris Altenburg -------------------------------------- Replacing bushings is on my list of "to do's" as well. One of the great benefits of this list is being able to identify advice that will come in useful when I have to tackle these jobs in the future, and squirrel it away in my Avanti mail archive. Pointers to more complete information would be very welcome. For instance, on this control arm bushing discussion - if someone with experience would say "Follow the shop manual procedure, but do X,Y,Z after step 3" or whatever the sage advice is - that would be great. General warnings are better than nothing, but usually just make me hesitant to tackle the job. Abbot --------------------------------------------- I agree to write an article about my experience (I'm sure Chuck won't mind proofing it, either). Unfortunately, we didn't take any photos. I'll try to take some by removing the wheel but I won't disassemble the car again just for the sake of photometric detail (sorry guys). I'll send it out to everyone as a MS Word attachment (or any other way people would like) and submit it to AOAI for publication to the rest of the AOAI group. I learned a lot. Thanks Chuck. Ken --------------------------------------------- Poly bushings are almost as hard and, I suspect, would yield the same ride on the street. -------------------------------------------