//////Can anyone explain to me how it all works I'm confused about the purpose of the switch at the throttle linkage //////////// -------------------- I'll try and explain, This is so simple that's it get ruff, and confusing. Electrical there is a relay that supplies power to the solenoid, and the solenoid lets it go in to OD. From the relay this is done by one wire. I know there is two on the solenoid the 2nd wire is a ground only when the solenoid is engaged, (or you are in OD) To get the relay to supply power to the solenoid a governor is used, and when about 30 MPH it sends a ground to the relay, pop's the relay and power is supplied to the solenoid, but the OD won't engage till you lift you foot off the gas petal, relieves the torte and bang... OD Now try and keep up here, the OD is engaged and the 2nd wire now has a ground and that ground goes the the switch at the foot feed petal. on that switch is four wires one is a hot wire and when the foot feed is not all the way down it's N/C to the relay. and that 2nd wire that is ground from the solenoid is N/O when you mash the gas, trip the switch N/C becomes N/O and the N/O is closed this goes to the distributer and grounds the points, engine in effect dies, no tourge and the solenoid disengages. When this happens there is no ground from the solenoid anymore and the engine keeps on powering the rear wheels. OK now we went flying around that big Ole Mack and we let up on the gas petal...Bang back in OD. -------------------- That switch on the throttle linkage is a sort of "passing gear", if you will. It has nothing to do with the engagement, per se, of the OD. Since I can assume that the car runs, the half of that switch that momentarily cuts out the ignition for passing gear, is OK and not causing a problem. IF, as you say, you have power to the relay on the firewall, then you need to determine if the relay's getting a ground from the governor switch at the rearmost of the tranny. It should have one green wire (or maybe some other color after all these years) that goes to a switch on the side of the tranny. THAT Switch is a reverse lockout device. It opens up when reverse gear is selected to prevent you from having OD engaged while in reverse. If that switch is in proper operating condition, it should allow a path for the ground that the governor provides when the car is moving faster than 32 MPH. All that being right, and 32 MPH having been achieved, the ground from the governor now causes the relay to close and send power to the OD solenoid (the big thing on the side of the tranny with 2 wires going to it). Anywhere after 32MPH - if you let up on the gas for a couple seconds - the solenoid should be able to shift the tranny to overdrive. You can feel it when it kicks in to OD and you can tell the lower RPMs of the engine when you get back on the gas. ALL that said - you should be able to get under the car, with the ignition switch turned on, ground that wire to the governor (assuming you don't have the car in reverse gear) and hear the relay click and maybe a bit of noise from the solenoid too. This would confirm that the OD electrical circuit is likely OK. If the relay DOESN'T click, then follow the path of the ground from the governor and see where it's broken or held up (maybe a bad reverse lockout switch) ONE primary problem with these OD systems is the fuse holder on the relay being dirty or corroded. Pop the fuse out and clean up the little fingers that hold it. Clean the ends of the fuse as well. Then see what happens. OD is a real pleasure when it's right and VERY reliable once you get to using it regular. I rarely, if EVER take my Transtar out of OD. There's just no reson to!!! -- StudeBob Kabchef ----------------- Before troubleshooting the electrical part of the OD, make CERTAIN that the lever on the OD unit that is operated by the manual cable goes all the way to the back of its travel when the manual cable is pushed in. If that lever is not in the fully back position, the OD will not engage. Harvey Cox and I spent HOURS troubleshooting the new OD unit on his 2R5, and were completely stumped, until on a sort of whim I reset the motion of the manual cable. The available travel in the cable assembly is sometimes not quite enough to move that lever for its full fore-and-aft travel. If you connect it up so the lever is fully forward when the knob is pulled, it may not go back far enough when the knob is pushed in. If you set it up, make sure that the lever is all the back when the knob is pushed in. Then when you pulle the knob out to lock out OD, the lever may not come all the way forward, but it will come plenty far enough to do its thing. Hope this helps, Gord Richmond ---- ///////Fuse blows or OD refuses to engage //////////// Start by cleaning the little fingers that retain the fuse - on the inside - where the fuse ends contat the fingers. Then loosen and retighten the wires on the relay and at the solenoid. Check to see that the wires associated with the solenoid aren't nicked or chafed to where they can touch metal somewhere - like one of the clips they pass thru or maybe where the shift linkage or throttle linkage have worn thru the insulation. IF you can't find any obvious spot to cause a short and the problem persists then it's time to suspect an intermittent short inside the solenoid. Studebob / MAR2003 ================ Aug 2004 With the overdrive, I have not been able to get it to freewheel. The solenoid is working appropriately, and the cable linkage to the tranny appears to be OK./////////// Handle pushed in (lever it controls on the tranny's at the rearmost of it's travel), accelerate the car to 15MPH or so, then let off the gas. Does the engine fall back to idle or does it work to brake the car somewhat (dynamic braking)? If it falls back to idle, you're freewheelin'. If it works to slow the car, check to make damn sure that that lever's ALL the way back with the handle pushed in. So, how can you tell if the solenoid's working properly if it doesn't freewheel? --------- It won't work without freewheeling, the freewheeling function lets the OD shift without a clutch. If you want OD without freewheeling you need to put in something like a 5 speed transmission. ------- With the OD engaged there should be no freewheeling, it should only freewheel when the OD knob is pushed in but the solenoid has not yet energized. Freewheeling is a side effect of the design of the planetary OD. With the OD knob pushed in, the the output shaft is driven through a roller clutch at the end of the mainshaft; the roller clutch transmits power in one direction only and freewheels in the other. Once the solenoid is energized and the transmission is in actual OD the output shaft is driven by the planetary gearset and the roller clutch freewheels since the output shaft speed now exceeds the mainshaft speed. There should be no freewheeling once the OD gears are actually engaged. When the OD knob is pulled out, the mainshaft and the output shaft are locked together and the roller clutch is stationary therefore there is no freewheeling. ------- Heck, if you get a click when you put the key on, you're never gonna get "freewheeling". Sounds like the governor switch is what's been bypassed. Thing is tho, it should have ruined The OD section the first time you tried to do reverse like that! Maybe the sprag clutch is locked up and CAN'T release. The only scenario I can imagine is that whoever wired the OD to be on all the time, had the smarts to incorporate a reverse lockout switch. And that wouldn't be too hard to do. In fact, earlier trannys had such a switch until engineers figured out you were unlikely to do 32 MPH in reverse anyway! Either way, if you hear the Solenoid clunk when you turn the key on, there's why you're not able to achieve freewheeling! ========= =========== Shorts - Sep 2004 I don't think the relay is necessarily bad. The two contacts on the FAR side of the kickdown switch from the plunger are supposed to momentarily short out the ignition when the accelerator is floored and the car is in overdrive gear, meaning the solenoid is activated and has pushed the pawl into the balk ring. Key word is "momentarily". The kickdown switch is supposed to "see" ground via a pair of contacts in the solenoid that are closed only when the solenoid is engaged. The kickdown switch does two things at once: 1. creates that momentary short to the ignition, thereby unloading engine torque from the gear train, 2. causes the relay to open, thereby de-energizing the solenoid, allowing its internal spring to withdraw the pawl and disengage the overdrive. As the pawl is withdrawn, the grounding contacts in the solenoid open, and the engine resumes running, even if the driver holds his foot in it. (Not that you'd ever have to hold your foot in it on a hill in a Champion. ) Ed, does the kickdown switch short out the ignition even if overdrive is not enaged, or even if it is locked out? If that is the case, I'd be looking for a short to ground in the wire running from the kickdown switch to the smaller of the two screws on the solenoid. If it only happens when the overdrive is working, I'd be thinking there is a problem within the solenoid, and the grounding contacts aren't opening as they should when the OD kicks out. Is there any chance you got the two wires interchanged on the OD solenoid? That would do it, I'm pretty sure, since the coil would "see" ground through the winding of the solenoid, which has a pretty low resistance. Being as the problem just came on since you changed the clutch, it could be possible. Hope this helps, Gord Richmond ------------------------------- Sep 2004- /////However....having filled it with 90 wt, I took it for a spin. No Freewheeling, hence no OD. ////////// ---------- The OD lever/button must be pushed all the way IN (forward) for the unit to free wheel and shift in to OD. Paul Johnson ------------------- //////////I also noticed, the speedo isn't working./////// "Tom_Bredehoft" ------------- It's recommended we use a GL-1 rated oil for these Stude BW trannys. From what I understand, the typical 80-90w stuff is too slippery for our older iron. My OD tranny's speedo didn't work either, due to the speedo gear freely spinning inside the case. I think there's a ball bearing they used to hold that gear fast on the shaft and if you remove the speedo pinion where it gazinta the tranny...stick your finger in there and if you can move the speedo gear, dat's the problem! "TomNoller" ---------- DO NOT USE 80/90 hypoid gear oil in an OD transmission. You can/will burn up the OD sun gear. As recommended to me many years ago- use a 50/50 mix of Non-detergent straight 30W weight motor oil, and STP Oil Treatment. Be SURE you fill BOTH the trans mission AND the OD. There are (2) filler plugs. I have used this combination in at least 10 OD equipped cars with NO problems whatsoever. DO NOT drive your car until you change the gear oil... Ray Ray Fichthorn --------------- On my 56 Transtar,I "hot wired" it,with a switch on the steering column that lets current run directly to the solonoid.The first time I flipped said switch, I heard the satisfying click I was hoping for.But the thing only freewheels,no gear reduction.Now I don't think the solonoid clicks when the switch is thrown,so I have freewheeling but thats all.Any ideas? "Robert Black" --------- Did you check the fuse to see if it blew? Is your lock out rail firmly all the way to the back of the transmission(cable all the way in). You may want to consider checking the connections on the kick down switch really well too. I have mine wired the same way you describe having yours done, and I had the problem where I stopped hearing the click and it wouldn't engage, but it would freewheel. I wiggled the wires on the kick down switch and it was okay after that. My kick down switch is not in real good shape so I don't use the pedal to the floor method of going direct. Toggling the switch and letting off the gas is working fine for me. Richard Lawler --------- I'll echo the oil concerns....If your car is a 6-cylinder, the T96 OD drives both the speedo gear & the solenoid. These internal gears can get stripped (big problem in 59') and you're without speedo & OD. Check it out. You can just see the gear inside the rear case from the side(easier on the bench)....If it's gone, your best bet is to hot wire the solenoid with a toggle switch and learn how to drive it that way....otherwise, remove and replace the gear..... jackcbreen@netscape.net (jbreen) ----------- But then you'd still have no speedo,my speedo works great after getting a new drive gear and using an unkinked cable from a lark parts car.If you ever see your speedo get jerky,remove the cable right away from the back of the speedo and spray some fluid film in it.That way you won't ruin it. "Robert Black" -------- Well Tom, I'll try and help you out here. I've been struggling with getting the OD working on the truck for a few years now and have just got it working so I know what a pain it can be trying to get the thing working right. First, I will assume you have checked that all your conections on your relay/govenor/solenoid/kick down switch are clean and are making contact. If yes, then the next thing I would check is to remove the wire from the govenor unit and ground it. If you here a click then your govenor is probably bad and that is keeping the OD from engaging. If you don't hear a click, then it is something else . No really, try that first and if you don't hear a click then post back and I'll see if I can give you some other things to try. Good luck!! Richard Lawler ------------ /////a 58 silver hawk with a 185 and T-96 trans and R10f 1G overdrive which is bad.I have a T-96 with a R10F 1E from a 59 what is the difference and would it work on the 58 silver hawk.///// ----------------- Why is the OD Unit bad? Check the size and spline count of both input and out put shafts. Check length of input shaft. Is the transmission same length from tip of input shaft to tip of out put shaft? I'm pretty sure there is no difference in shafts on the two. I think the length of the tranny should be the same, as the short shaft tranny and 2 piece drive shaft was phased out in 1957. It should bolt up and work ok, except the internal gearing of the tranny itself my be a little different from yours, as there are several different combinations available depending on rear axle ratio. You might crack the side open and count teeth on the cluster gear of both. This will determine if the second one is compatible with your specific axle ratio. As for the Over Drive Unit. I don't believe there is any difference in internal components from 47-66. These should all be the same application. In fact, the OD Unit should interchange with the first tranny. This would give you the opinion of retaining your original gear setup should the tooth count be different. "64daytonaht" ---