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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2008 :  3:23:47 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bill Cathcart just finished a set for me:



I cut them right in the middle after cutting off the heat riser housing. They came out really well and Bill knows how to make them now.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire

scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2008 :  3:26:38 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here's the (unfinished) set up with the modified intake manifold:




I need to have a few holes filled on the intake. I'll be grinding both intakes down and polishing them and then get them Jet Hot coated. This set up came out better than I had hoped.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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tomnoller
Golden Hawk Member

USA
623 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2008 :  3:28:16 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit tomnoller's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Beautiful, Scott! How do you get the car to the exhaust shop? Or will you make the pipes?
Also, did you send Bill the old manifold? Shoot another pic when you get it all together, okay?
Thanks for posting.
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2008 :  3:30:28 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure how I'll get to the exhaust shop yet! I have another stock exhaust/intake that I'll probably put on to get it there.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2008 :  3:37:53 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Tom,

I sent the exhaust manifold to Bill, but he probably can get one pretty easy. I wanted to experiment with an old one I had first. I gingerly cut out the heat riser housing, trying to leave as much material as possible. As it turned out, there was enough metal to work with. Bill did have to add some material to the ends:



Bill had wanted to try building a set for years. He has an OHV 6 that he used as a guide. He's now going to build a set for himself.

Here's some links to some "before" shots:


Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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Chris Pile
Commander Member

1144 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2008 :  4:34:42 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Man! I'm liking that action!

Chris Pile
Midway Chapter SDC
The Studebaker Special
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53k
Commander Member

USA
1318 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2008 :  08:24:11 AM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by scott.rodgers

Here's the (unfinished) set up with the modified intake manifold:



Ram induction?

Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine
1962 Gravely Model L (Studebaker-Packard serial plate)
1972 Gravely Model 430 (Studebaker name plate, Studebaker Onan engine)
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silverhawk
Cruiser Member

USA
140 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2008 :  3:13:23 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Sweet! I literaly have been day dreaming of that set up for the past couple years. I just don't have a OHV 6 powered car to do it in.

Dylan
'61 lark deluxe 4dr wagon
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2008 :  6:23:43 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Let the grinding begin:



Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire

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mbstude
Commander Member

USA
5304 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2008 :  6:28:41 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit mbstude's Homepage  Reply with Quote
That engine is on its way to being a Jet Thrust Six, for sure! Next is figuring out a bracket for the Whirling Orange Paxton.

Love the chromed valve cover.

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA



Edited by - mbstude on 12/14/2008 6:29:22 PM
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Dick Steinkamp
Commander Member

USA
6539 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2008 :  6:52:01 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I just love it when someone breaks new ground like this .

Good going, Scott. Looks great, most likely will sound great, and there might even be a few horsepower there.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA



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HAWK
Champion Member

13 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2008 :  6:57:01 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
i HAD A 50 CHEVY WITH A SIX OVERHEAD VALVES AND I SPLIT THE MANIFOLD
TWO PIPES COMING OUT THE BACK .OUT TWO GLASS PACKS ON IT AND WOW,
DID IT CRACK WHEN YOU GASED IT..IT MADE THE V8 S SOUND QUIET..
LOVED THAT SOUND BUT AFTER MANY TICKETS I FINALLY TOOK IT OFF..
I GOT A 62 LARK 170 AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT IT AGAIN THEN I READ YOUR BLOG...OH I LOVE TO HEAR THAT SOUND AGAIN, BUT IM ALITTLE TO OLD TO DO IT AGAIN....LET US KNOW HOW THAT BABY SOUNDS WHEN YOU GET IT TOGETHER ...... HAWK





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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  1:07:36 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here's some details on the intake.

I completely cut off the material that formed the upper part of the heat riser housing:



Then I just ground the remains down flat. I need to fill the hole from the PVC fitting. I also got a little carried away and ground through part of the bottom wall of the manifold. This was in the part that was formerly covered by the heat riser housing. It was hard to tell how thin the wall was. I was trying to get the bottom of the manifold straight, but the casting won't allow it. A slight jog in the bottom has to remain.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  1:08:29 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Another picture:



Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  1:10:23 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
More grinding done:



You can see here that the bottom of the manifold has a jog in it - it can't be ground flat.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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52-fan
Golden Hawk Member

USA
992 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  1:14:56 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Is a larger carb or dual carbs in the works? Other than a fellow years ago who wrote about putting a small turbo on an ohv Stude six I've not seen much about them over the years. It will be interesting to hear how this turns out. Looks good so far.


1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  1:22:10 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I want to try a Carter/Weber setup from Langdon's Stovebolt (using a 1 to 2 barrel carb adapter):

http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/acartpro/product.asp?productid=97


Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  1:24:11 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bill Cathcart said he wanted to make an OHV 6 intake into one set up for three carbs. I wasn't brave enough to try it myself - too much adjusting needed...

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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52-fan
Golden Hawk Member

USA
992 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  2:46:36 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
3 carbs! I would think that the engine was a bit small, but maybe with the right jets....


1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."
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Ron Dame
Cruiser Member

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  5:42:09 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Hey Scott. I don't know I've missed this thread so far, but go man!

I talked to Bill about splitting my manifold and may get it done yet, though it will be towards the end of my way-too-long gestation of the Black Bart Special 185 OHV. That split manifold should sound good, I'd be glad to hear how it works on performance. Not to knock you or Bill, but it does still look a bit constricted and contorted.

What else have you done to your OHV? I've just finished getting a Stromberg WW on my old stock OHV, though I have jetting issues to work out. Even so, throttle response is much better, and I can finally wind up over 4,000 RPM. I can't wait to finally finish the BBS 185, and see how it runs.

Ron



Ron Dame
'63 Champ
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  7:13:50 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ron,

I am concerned about the restriction - I'll see what happens when it's actually mounted.

I've got a HEI distributor and a MSD coil:



I'll probably order the hot cam from Cathcart's one of these days too.

I'll probably finish up the paintwork in this next week.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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sals54
Golden Hawk Member

861 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  10:19:46 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
WHERE'S THE SPOT FOR THE OTHER 2 CARBURETORS ???????

sals54
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2008 :  10:34:12 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Bill Cathcart said he wanted to put them at the "elbows."

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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Ron Dame
Cruiser Member

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  5:59:15 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
With the OHV and it's siamesed intakes, he is right-you want equal length runners straight in, and need the balance tube that the front and rear runners provide. I've not measured, but it seems that you could find rectangular tubing and fab a new intake easier than modifying the old one, and it'd be lighter to boot. I had considered this along with three SU carbs (hey, worn out like most are, SU's suck, but rebuilt, they are very tunable and reliable) The problem was fender clearance. For now I'll stick with the Stromberg WW.

Scott, have you done any internal mods to the engine? I'd be especially interested in how you can clean up the intake bowls in the head.

quote:
Originally posted by scott.rodgers

Bill Cathcart said he wanted to put them at the "elbows."

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire



Ron Dame
'63 Champ
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  6:15:31 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ron,

I haven't done anything internally on the engine yet. I might try port matching the intake and exhaust manifolds soon though. I've already scribed them using a new gasket. There's quite a lot of material that can come out. I don't really want to remove the head now and do a lot of work on it. I want to see how the mods I've done already work first. I may even put the old distributor back in first so I'm not trying to modify too much at once.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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blackhawk61
Golden Hawk Member

USA
502 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  6:21:24 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
The 2bc sounds like a good place to start....Be pretty simple.

1961 Hawk 4BC,4-SPEED,TT

Ken Byrd
Lewisville,NC
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Ron Dame
Cruiser Member

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  6:28:19 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
That's a good plan, seeing how each part helps. I'm doing the internal part, and will let you know how the 185 crank works. Paul Warta is also playing with a 185 OHV, as is Jeff Tangeman.

I'm starting with basic port matching too, and will probably sacrifice a spare head (it's rough) to see how much meat there is in the bowls to work with. I'll probably let the Barnes and Reese boys do the bowl work too, it's more than I feel comfortable or knowledgeable about. If they've got some spare time and will do it cheap, I may even tote the engine back over and have them put it on the dyno. I wonder if it can read that low? :-)


quote:
Originally posted by scott.rodgers

Ron,

I haven't done anything internally on the engine yet. I might try port matching the intake and exhaust manifolds soon though. I've already scribed them using a new gasket. There's quite a lot of material that can come out. I don't really want to remove the head now and do a lot of work on it. I want to see how the mods I've done already work first. I may even put the old distributor back in first so I'm not trying to modify too much at once.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire



Ron Dame
'63 Champ
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  6:35:39 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I wanted to to do an OHV 185 at some point too. I even had a nice 57 flathead at once, but I let it get away.

According to my mechanic, the head on the OHV is one of the best he's ever seen - no cracks at all. Looks like I got lucky. I haven't seen the head off the car though, so I can't verify that for sure.

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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sals54
Golden Hawk Member

861 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  7:55:18 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Here's some pix of an intake manifold I made. I used it on my flat 6 turbo, which I had in the car you see below. The AFB carb is one of the OEM style which is about 350-400 cfm.




It worked quite well. It may be too much for a normally aspirated engine, but it may be worth a try. With the right cam and headers, it just might work.

sals54
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r1lark
Golden Hawk Member

USA
605 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  8:03:15 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sals54

Here's some pix of an intake manifold I made. I used it on my flat 6 turbo, which I had in the car you see below. The AFB carb is one of the OEM style which is about 350-400 cfm.




It worked quite well. It may be too much for a normally aspirated engine, but it may be worth a try. With the right cam and headers, it just might work.

sals54



That's wild, Sal!! Got any pictures of the engine with the turbo?

Paul
Winston-Salem, NC
Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com
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Ron Dame
Cruiser Member

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  8:15:13 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
That is neat! I guess you needed a turbo to push that much mix through those tiny runners! Is that all hand built or is some of it an original manifold?

quote:
Originally posted by r1lark

quote:
Originally posted by sals54

Here's some pix of an intake manifold I made. I used it on my flat 6 turbo, which I had in the car you see below. The AFB carb is one of the OEM style which is about 350-400 cfm.




It worked quite well. It may be too much for a normally aspirated engine, but it may be worth a try. With the right cam and headers, it just might work.

sals54



That's wild, Sal!! Got any pictures of the engine with the turbo?

Paul
Winston-Salem, NC
Visit The NEW Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: www.studebakerskytop.com



Ron Dame
'63 Champ
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Jeff T.
Cruiser Member

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  9:41:23 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Stop, stop, oh please stop:) all these great ideas on how to use parts on my scrap pile.

I'll have to check in my barn for all the extra OHV manifolds from parts motors for splicing and shaping. Sal just gave me an idea of slicing the intake arms off an old Ohv intake and adding a box for a bigger carb. Oh sure I could just get a webber and an adapter but where is the fun in that:)

Welding 101 refresher (for me) : what do you use to weld steel plate and box members to cast iron. Gas or electric?

Scott : good going on the headers, now I have something to do with my extra exhaust manifolds... I'll send them to Bill Cathcart to modify:)

Jeff T.


"I'm getting nowhere as fast as I can"
The Replacements.
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sals54
Golden Hawk Member

861 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  9:54:57 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
Its all original. I was just wingin' it. Exhaust tubing, bar stock, and a hole saw. I don't know if I still have any pix of the install. It was some years ago. I still have the exhaust manifold with the turbo still mounted on it. Its a stock exhaust manifold with the bottom cut off at the heat riser. About a 45* angle. Then I braised a 1/2 in steel plate to mount the turbo. These are both collecting dust hanging on the wall of the barn. Waiting for the next go-round, I guess.

sals54
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scott.rodgers
Cruiser Member

USA
154 Posts

Posted - 12/17/2008 :  10:16:45 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Visit scott.rodgers's Homepage  Reply with Quote
sals45,

Just out of curiosity, do you have a picture of that exhaust manifold for the turbo?

Scott Rodgers
Los Angeles
SDC Member since 1989
'60 Lark HT
'63 Wagonaire
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sals54
Golden Hawk Member

861 Posts

Posted - 12/18/2008 :  10:25:19 PM  Show Profile  Email Poster  Reply with Quote
I'll try to get a picture of that for you tomorrow. Too dark and rainy out now. Besides, I'm skeered of the dark.

sals54
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